[House build thread] Andy’s house ( not from scratch )

[Steve Swan]

Curious and curiouser, but it can't flow hot water and not heat, that's like if two Men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong.added to the fact it did work, makes it look like high resistance to flow. If the flow controls have numbers on them to set, treat as suspect. The only real way to know is to disconnect the circuit and use a hose, bucket and watch to measure flow rate. The controls with floating pointers in the actual pipe are a better indicator, but still go wrong.. the pump is just a water mixer, not a real displacement pump, it takes very little to stop them moving water. The solenoid valve could be broken at the valve seat, meaning that the valve clicks and actuates, but leaves the seats closed, can it be removed and the hole plugged to rule it out?

 

[andybond]

Curious and curiouser, but it can't flow hot water and not heat, that's like if two Men say they're Jesus, one of them must be wrong.added to the fact it did work, makes it look like high resistance to flow. If the flow controls have numbers on them to set, treat as suspect. The only real way to know is to disconnect the circuit and use a hose, bucket and watch to measure flow rate. The controls with floating pointers in the actual pipe are a better indicator, but still go wrong.. the pump is just a water mixer, not a real displacement pump, it takes very little to stop them moving water. The solenoid valve could be broken at the valve seat, meaning that the valve clicks and actuates, but leaves the seats closed, can it be removed and the hole plugged to rule it out?

I have change the flow values ( 2 of them ) for new units.

Same issue!

I am going to re-bleed the zone again for the millionth time.

 

[Steve Swan]

complete valves or just the heads, can they be changed Dry?

 

[andybond]

complete valves or just the heads, can they be changed Dry?

Identical valves.

They can be changed partially dry. Drain a little liquid then swap them out.

 

[Steve Swan]

What am I looking at in the picture? The flow manifold or the return manifold? Are these the trimmer valves for flowrate??I assume the pump is before the flow manifold.

 

[andybond]

What am I looking at in the picture? The flow manifold or the return manifold? Are these the trimmer valves for flowrate??I assume the pump is before the flow manifold.

That’s the flow.

You are correct. You can trim to set the flow. The pump is directly before this manifold.

 

[Steve Swan]

It's not the time of year for playing with your heating system but if you disconnect the flow and return and connect one end to a hose and the other to a bucket you will be able to work out if there is much resistance to flow on that circuit, if its ok then you are looking at the solenoid valve on the Return manifold, can it be removed and plugged to see what works without it , beware if it is a 2 part thing as the bit in the water may be broken and not operating correctly or at all. Used to be a real odd fault on honeywell zone valves, the pressfit lever on the ball valve could come free and the valve would stay shut, although you could see the motor working and the mechanism moving. there's usually a spring somewhere to prevent chatter which will hold closed if the mech breaks/comes loose..

 

[andybond]

This is exactly how you bleed these systems.

I put the tap—> hose —> flow manifold

I put the other hose return manifold —> hose —> outside

I get identical flows through both ( it’s a twin loop ) segment.

The solenoid is unusual on the polypipe systems, its push to close, not open. If I remove the actuator / solenoid it defaults to open. I can see the flow valve reach >4l/min.

I have changed both flow valves for peace of mind .


Appreciate your input here BTW!

 

[Steve Swan]

I served my time as service engineer with British Gas,then technician. Then transferred to BG on the network side Transco. Finally ended up with SGN as the Industrial/ commercial supply engineer, but unfortunately I couldn't escape my past, so had to do the first response stuff out of hours. Money was good, but the hours were a PITA. They were proposing working 9 weekends over 13, so I told them they could tuck that and left. That will have been 5 years ago in Jan, so now a distant memory. Had a great laugh at my leaving interview when they asked why I was leaving so early (I said I was retiring, which was what I actually did) I pointed out that I had worked, so many out of hours and weekends that I had done 41 years of work in 36 years in the job, looked at them, laughed, got up and walked out. Best days work I ever did...

 

[Steve Swan]

I don't quite get the double loop bit.. If that means there are 2 circuits within one Zone then fair enough. If it is not then have you got a flow connected to a return ???

 

[andybond]

I don't quite get the double loop bit.. If that means there are 2 circuits within one Zone then fair enough. If it is not then have you got a flow connected to a return ???

I was vague with that - yes 2 circuits in one zone.

 

[Steve Swan]

Is the system sealed or does it have a header tank?

 

[andybond]

Is the system sealed or does it have a header tank?

Sealed system. There is no header / expansion vessel

 

[Steve Swan]

Sealed system much less likely to suffer from airlock, unless the pipework has been really badly installed , think you can rule it out. when you put it on can you feel the heat on the flow pipe before it disappears ? how quick does that section to the floor heat, does it heat at all?
If I wasn't at the opposite end of the country , I would have had a look at it .
We used to have a proper game with open systems that were drop fed from a high ring circuit with airlocks , I always used our leak detection fluid when I filled the systems (this was before additives were a thing) this was a non corrosive detergent and would create foam in the airlocked parts of the system , the pumps can get a hold of foam, not air , so there would be some entertaining noises and away it would go. I never stuck..

 

[andybond]

when you put it on can you feel the heat on the flow pipe before it disappears ? how quick does that section to the floor heat, does it heat at all?

Yes, I can feel a proper hotspot of not more than 1m*1m

The other sections in the two loops dont feel warm under foot at all.

 

[Steve Swan]

Hotspots usually indicate poor flow. A Rad that heats at one end or across the top is usually a sign of poor flow, that or there is some by-pass arrangement on this part which is over active and is short circuiting the flow, is access possible or is it buried in the screed??

 

[andybond]

Hotspots usually indicate poor flow. A Rad that heats at one end or across the top is usually a sign of poor flow, that or there is some by-pass arrangement on this part which is over active and is short circuiting the flow, is access possible or is it buried in the screed??

Its buried

I have had it once on one circuit warm in parts, and the other circuit the same. However it never seems to last.

I have turned the mixer upto 60 and seen the water temp raise and then the flow rate increase to >4l/min on both circuits. They just never seem to get warm!

 

[andybond]

We have had a fault in another shower. I didnt have it as a priority fix as the other showers worked in the house. However wife Bond motivated me a little and I remarked I didnt need reminding every 6mo that it was broken.

I took this one apart and the thermostatic value is massive compared to most others.

I also noted it was £89 + postage for a new one.

After some internet sleuthing I got a whole new exposed thermostatic mixer part for £112 delivered so voila. Swapped over in 20minutes and warm water had resumed from this shower!



In another episode of "Andy does DIY" Ill be taking down some plaster from a roof and wondering how hard can plastering be?

 

[Big Steve - Raider]

Ill be taking down some plaster from a roof and wondering how hard can plastering be

Look forwards to finding out....

 

[-Jo-]

We have had a fault in another shower. I didnt have it as a priority fix as the other showers worked in the house. However wife Bond motivated me a little and I remarked I didnt need reminding every 6mo that it was broken.

I took this one apart and the thermostatic value is massive compared to most others.

I also noted it was £89 + postage for a new one.

After some internet sleuthing I got a whole new exposed thermostatic mixer part for £112 delivered so voila. Swapped over in 20minutes and warm water had resumed from this shower!

View attachment 215755

In another episode of "Andy does DIY" Ill be taking down some plaster from a roof and wondering how hard can plastering be?

it look easy, but always regret afterwards. Good luck!