5 GT Turbo R5 GT Turbo - Complete strip down and re-build #1

[Steve Swan]

Fun Fact
Later 8Gordini's had a double push horn switch. Light push sounded the Beep horn for pedestrians in town press harder and the Air horns fired up, for high speed use- Happy days ................

 

[Chris74#]

So, I have been struggling to get my mojo back with this, but after going and seeing Mr @Duncan Grier and a successful raid of his spares, I came back determined to get this finished! I got some shiny bits back from the platers yesterday morning and then after going shopping with the wife, I spent the day trying to remember where they all go!! I went through the hundreds of photos I have! I also had to conduct a military operation to sneak said raided parts into the garage without the wife seeing them!

The oil pipes came up a treat!


I put the headlamp dip resistor back together and fitted it in position on the car

Came up nice and clean! then fitted other random brackets!


Today I decided to tackle the low rear suspension by adjusting the torsion bars, after reading some comments from @Brigsy back in 2017 I got on with it!
Firstly I had a look at the current height and decided I needed to go up about 50mm +10mm for the car to settle back down again - Thanks @Brigsy for that pearl of wisdom! I then got the car up on axle stands and got the wheels and rear bumper off!!

I then removed the rear arches and rubber gasket!

I then measured from the top of the disc to the centre of the wheel arch and made a note of it on the disc! I then got my home made puller and screwed it into the torsion bar and wound it out!!

Not long after, it was out!

Then the same on the other side!


I then added 60mm to my original measurement and wedged the beam into position on both sides. Then I gently tapped the torsion bars back in to place! Bootiful!!
Then, while I was under the car and my shiny's had come back, I decided to change the hand brake mechanism and tighten the handbrake up!


I gave it a smear of grease once tweaked up!

Then on to the spare wheel cage! Got that in also!


Then I got the bumper blocks out and messed about with the rear bumper for half an hour until I realised I was using the wrong bloody blocks!!!

Anyway got the bumper on, then the rear arches and wheels and dropped it to the floor to admire my handywork!


Much better!!

Thanks for reading guys!!! Feeling a bit more energised now after completing something!!

 

[Chris74#]

Feeling confident after reading @sparkie C1J rebuild thread, I got the engine out and began to strip it down!




First bolt I went to sheared off in the water pump!

Great start! I kept on going and got the water pump off, I noticed that there were two other bolts sheared off in there too!
I managed to get two of the three sheared bolts out, but the third one had sheared off almost flush with the cylinder head! I drilled it but can't find my screw extractor!

Then off with the chain tensioner, this looks a bit worn!
Then off with the sprocket and chain!
Then off with the distributor!


Silicone sealant around the distributor!
Then Oil filter and sandwich plate off!



Then I removed the cylinder head and put it to one side!







I put a couple of bolts in with some penny washers to hold the cylinder sleeves in place while I turn the block upside down to release the pistons and crankshaft!


I pulled the pushrod cam followers out and placed them down in sequence!


I then got the oil pump off!



Then out with the pistons, being careful to ensure that they come off and stay together!



Then out with the crankshaft!


Then to get the cylinder sleeves out!




I then turned the block back upright and noticed a rather thick layer of gunk!






I then tried to pull the cam shaft out but it was stuck in there! I eventually realised that I had left the distributor drive in place! I got my extendable magnet and lifted it out!

Then the camshaft came out, with a bit of wiggling!


Then I remembered @sparkie mentioned about the number plate on the block, I got my feeler gauge out and tried to get the plate off, but I was damaging the plate, so I reverted to using a spot weld drill bit and it came straight off!


Then I photographed and removed all of the bolts from the block!

I then decide to keep going and strip the cylinder head down too!


TBC........

 

[Chris74#]

Continued with the cylinder head!



Then I pulled the manifold studs out - double nut method!

Then out with the valves and springs!



I got a plastic tub and drilled holes in the lid to keep the valves in place!

I then bagged & tagged everything and went to the pub!
Thanks for reading guys!

 

[Chris74#]

So, I won the prize for the heaviest xmas present!
I nipped out there yesterday evening to set the block in its caustic bath and get that underway!

I dropped an aquarium heater in there to keep the water warm!


Went out there this morning and its not really warm enough so I dropped another aquarium heater in there!
I was thinking on Powder coating the block last night, so I got the spare block out of the loft to see if it will fit in the oven, or do I need to hack the oven from a double to a single! anyway it fits as it is! Result!

I then got on with cleaning bits and pieces!

and had a go at the head and valves!



I put the head in a plastic bag and poured petrol in, then dropped it into the ultrasonic cleaner to see if that cleaned it up any?


Didn't really do anything, but whilst it was 'cooking', I got on with cleaning the valves! One of the valves has what looks like rust on it, Does this need changing?


The rest look ok!

Then I dropped the oil pump in the bag of petrol and put it through the ultrasonic cleaner!

There doesn't seem to be any signs of wear on the pump!

I then gave the head a brush with a brass wire brush!


Some pitting, and this!

Not sure if this is ok or not! any advice would be greatly appreciated! Then gave the oil filter sandwich plate a clean up!

Gave the head a bit more of a clean up but think I will get it vapour blasted!

So, I need info on what replacement parts I need. I'm not trying to squeeze any extra power out of the engine, so as close to standard as possible!
What brand and type of crankshaft bearings - std?
What brand and type/ size gasket kits do I need and where is best to get them?
Thanks in advance for your help guys!

 

[Brigsy]

Head needs a face from the pics mate. Defo dont brass brush the mating face again, its a big no no as puts way too many scratches on the face for my liking. To clean use decapjoint and a plastic scraper, finishing off with brake cleaner and a lint free rag.

Check the head height is above 73mm with vernier calipers as thats the minimum you want on stock ignition, 73.5mm is even better.

Buy new rotors for the oil pump from mecaparts. Every original set ive checked, barely make minimum tolerance, which makes for shit oil pressure. Take the pressure relief valve out of the pump and check it moves freely, as seen a fair few jammed from standing.

 

[Brigsy]

Bearing wise, you need to check what size is required, mic the crank and check all journals have no scoring. I used king bearings on mine, seemed ok when checking clearances they were ok. Glyco are supposed to be ok too.

No shot blasting rocker cover or any components. Any little bit of shot left will wreck your fresh engine. Cleanliness is next to godliness in an engine build, soapywater and power wash fuck outof everything, followed by light oil wd40 or whatever on all surfaces to protect from flash rust.

 

[Chris74#]

Bearing wise, you need to check what size is required, mic the crank and check all journals have no scoring. I used king bearings on mine, seemed ok when checking clearances they were ok. Glyco are supposed to be ok too.

No shot blasting rocker cover or any components. Any little bit of shot left will wreck your fresh engine. Cleanliness is next to godliness in an engine build, soapywater and power wash fuck outof everything, followed by light oil wd40 or whatever on all surfaces to protect from flash rust.

Thanks mate! Never heard of mecarparts before, just had a look, looks bang on!

 

[Steve Swan]

Did you ever find the spring seats (washers) on the head?? They need to be there to stop the springs digging into the head, as basically it is all supposed to rotate to minimise wear. Usually when parts have been re-ground they can loose their subtle angles and curves that they had when new. It is not important on our stuff which is not going to do big mileages between rebuilds, but is part of engine design which is as usual, more in-depth than you might think.

 

[Chris74#]

Did you ever find the spring seats (washers) on the head?? They need to be there to stop the springs digging into the head, as basically it is all supposed to rotate to minimise wear. Usually when parts have been re-ground they can loose their subtle angles and curves that they had when new. It is not important on our stuff which is not going to do big mileages between rebuilds, but is part of engine design which is as usual, more in-depth than you might think.

Looks like the washers are integrated into the valve stem seals?????

??

 

[Brigsy]

The washers are separate to the valve stem originally.

The valve stem oil seals pictured arent the originals, they actually look like megane or clio 2.0 ones. Could be a half decent option if they fit ok as the orignal valve stem oil seals are crap, usually ride up the valve and the springs end up in the sump. If your valve guides are ok, you can go oldskool and run no valve stem oil seals, ive not ran any in my extra van for years.

 

[Steve Swan]

If your valve guides are ok, you can go oldskool and run no valve stem oil seals, ive not ran any in my extra van for years.

Can be a bit Smoky on startup. Mind you it helps prevent valves picking up when being mercilessly thrashed
on Atmo's, when playing with different valves, guides, springs cotters and caps using different thickness platform washers is the way to optimise seat pressures and trim installed lengths. These valves are very large when compared to the C1J head. A mild set of upgrade springs would help to lift the rpm ceiling a bit without valve float setting in.

 

[Chris74#]

Got out there this morning and got the vernier's out to measure the head height! Just under 74mm! I assume that is good???

Then I got the block out of the caustic bath and jet washed it down, got absolutely soaked!



Then as per @sparkie's post, I got a clean bath ready for it and in it went!


I then decided to have a test run at powder coating a block! I used the spare one that I had previously wire brush cleaned!
I gave it a quick blast with the wire brush just to remove some of the flash rust and then set about masking and plugging everything! I used the timing chain cover to make a template.


Then used the old cylinder head gasket to make another!





I then removed the id tag off the block!

I then decided to mask off the bolt heads, and used the rubber bungs to block other holes!

Then out with the zinc primer powder coat!

Then on with the zinc primer!




Then into the oven for a warm up!

After about 10 mins!!


Left it cool down for an hour or so, then on with the black gloss!





Then back into the oven!





I think it looks pretty smart! Learnt a few things so the 'dry run' was worthwhile! I also have a decent spare block lying about now!!
Then i measured the journals on the crank shaft and removed the small sprocket and oil seal from the end of it!

Think I'll take the head and crankshaft to the local engineering firm and get them to check these over and make them good!!
Thanks for reading guys!

 

[Steve Swan]

Looks Great
When checking journals, always check in several points around the diameter, wear is never uniform. You are probably best to take it to the machine shop and get them to check it. If it needs a grind, it needs a grind, if not ask them to polish it. If they do balancing I would get it balanced, but you will need to take them the crank flywheel and clutch cover to get the best results. Rod piston assembly you can do with a good set of scales, a flat surface, couple Vee blocks and some packing pieces.

 

[Brigsy]

Block looks great.

Ive recently picked up loads of info on fitting valve springs @Steve Swan fitted length is quite important. Ive never checked it on a c1j basically dueto lack of knowledge, only checked to make sure the springs werent coil bound with hot camshafts. Ill do some measuring on efi build v2. Have you seen any 1 piece c1j valves on your travels?

 

[sparkie]

I advise getting a long drill bit, cellotaping some scotchbrite in it and put it down the distributer hole. Where the mesh gear sits - it likes to rust and you won't be able to get the gear back in properly.

 

[Steve Swan]

Block looks great.

Ive recently picked up loads of info on fitting valve springs @Steve Swan fitted length is quite important. Ive never checked it on a c1j basically dueto lack of knowledge, only checked to make sure the springs werent coil bound with hot camshafts. Ill do some measuring on efi build v2. Have you seen any 1 piece c1j valves on your travels?

It gets subjective as usual. On the atmo crossflow head the fitted length is 37mm. I am using chambered crossflow or Twink valves and have used springs from various sources in the past. It follows reason if you are using performance springs from another source you need to know their fitted length, so you can adjust to suit their requirements. As a general rule of thumb you need a minimum opening pressure of about 40lbs to get the valve off it's seat and you want no more than 170-190 lbs at peak lift. if you are lower than that then you will get into valve float and bounce early, higher than that will wear every component in the valvetrain prematurely (been there done that)
Turbo motors not so revvy and have smaller lighter valves and much quieter cam profiles, so nowhere as stressed as their Atmo counterparts. I would guess that the aftermarket springs available from piper would cover most applications.
At rebuild time it is always worth taking the springs out and checking they are straight and all the same free length. If they are not it is time to replace them.
With Atmo's double springs are always used which give a different set of harmonics from single springs. I once saw a set of top Quality Isky springs come out of like a corkscrew, you can never tell
This is in conjunction with cams giving near 500thou lift and over 300 deg duration. I don't think a turbo motor would start with a cam like that in it!!!

 

[Chris74#]

Got my block out of its caustic bath this morning and got the jet wash on it! Got soaked again!!





I gave it a quick wipe down and then baked it in the oven at 200C for an hour! Then got busy with the wire brush!









I then gave it a blast with the air line and a wipe down with some paint pre, ready for powder coat! I masked everything off, I used a bit of foil tape yesterday and it worked a treat so used that today and made sure I masked off all the areas that I missed on yesterdays dry run!




Then on with the zinc primer powder!


Then in to the oven!

Gave it a bake, then took it out to cool down!



Whilst it was cooling down, I decided to give the inlet manifold a clean up! I stripped the bits of it and dropped it into the ultrasonic cleaner!

I ran them through the wire brush, then once the manifold had had an hour or so in the cleaner I took it out dried it off and got the brush on it too!



I then loosely refitted the bits!

By this time, the block had cooled enough to get the black powder on!

After 20 mins or so!

I let it cool a little and then began to remove the plugs and masking!

 

[Chris74#]

I dropped the cylinder head off at the local engineering shop for them to work their magic, they are going to clean it, check it for flatness and pressure test it, skim it if needed!
Thanks for reading guys!

 

[Duncan Grier]

Well done @Chris74# cracking job and looks spot on