5 GT Turbo R5 GT Turbo - Complete strip down and re-build #1

[Chris74#]

As above bin that exhaust manifold. The raceland tubular has always been shite, stock exhaust manifold far more reliable.

Guys, with regards to putting this back together, what are the recommendations for exhaust. Im going for as standard as possible but with some slight improvements, such as suspension. Any other recommendations? Putting it back together does seem a long way off at the moment!!

 

[Chris74#]

Fair suggestion from @Brigsy. My experiance of doing 2 well over 10 years ago were a royal pita and real fight even with big boy toys. Can't imagine they have got any better with another decade added

Sure a good clean, prep and fresh coating will look fine and save a heap of fun however I fully expect you will go for most painful option just to know its done

ha ha!! no pain no gain! you are right @Duncan Grier the painful route seems like the only way as I have taken it this far. As I said in one of my first posts, I would rather take my time and do it properly, than rush it and do half a job, although this is not always the easiest route!

 

[Chris74#]

So, the new inner and outer cills turned up today, I didn't spend too long out there, but tried the cill on over the existing cill and marked the positions for the bodykit rivets.



I then cut the drivers side outer cill off to have a look at what was going on inside as when I cut the front lifting point off, it looked like there were many layers of metal in there.
There was a piece of metal slipped in there which was flapping about with a couple of spot welds at the front. I pulled that off and then pulled the rest of the cill off. There was a section just behind the door opening the was spot welded to an internal support, this support is going to need some work to get it back into shape.




I then tried the cill on again!


A much better fit. I then tried the internal cill and clamped that into place.



Another picture of the crap repair to the drivers side footwell.


I then got the front subframe out of the loft. Im going to try and straighten it as best I can and then get it powder coated. I have ordered new arms and hubs.





Thanks for reading, and any advice or ideas are most welcome!

 

[clarky_gtt]

Thanks for the info @clarky_gtt Ill get on the hot for a decent stock manifold!

Got one here for you, are you far from swindon?

 

[Chris74#]

Got one here for you, are you far from swindon?

I’m in Burton on Trent, but will make the trip to get it. Thanks.

 

[clarky_gtt]

You sure? I'll keep it to one side, it's a spare.

 

[Chris74#]

Definitely. Thanks.

 

[DaveL485]

That sill repair section looks pretty good, where did that come from? I hunted for something like that for the 21 for years, nothing out there sadly.

 

[Chris74#]

That sill repair section looks pretty good, where did that come from? I hunted for something like that for the 21 for years, nothing out there sadly.

I got it from GT Turbo spares, down south somewhere. I'm not sure how to go about fitting them, but will work something out. I want to replace the missing 'down-leg' from the floor pans first.
The replacement inner and outer cills cost £200 for both sides. The only issue with the outer cill is that it is slightly too long, but that can be easily fixed!

 

[Chris74#]

Hand another few hours at it this afternoon. I decided that I couldn't sit and wait for the welding fella to turn up and set about spot welding the replacement panel that I made for the o/s cradle leg.
I held the panel against the leg and marked it where I was going to spot weld, next to the original welds. I then punched all of the holes in it and offered it up.



Then I got busy with the welder...absolutely bricking it that I was going to blow the arse out of it! I took @DaveL485 advice and took my time and gave it plenty of time to cool down! I had a couple of close calls and plenty of buggeration messing with the welder settings until it was doing what I needed.


I then decided to fully weld where the turret meets the new panel, again bricking it! but it turned out OK...I think. I then ground it all down and found a couple of small bits that need a bit of a dab with the welder and then ground them down.
I then got the spray gun out as when I got the car from the dippers, they gave me a tin of weld through primer, so I thought I would try and prevent more of the recent rust issues!
First time I have ever used one of these and I must say it was a lot of fun! I didn't realise how much paint was actually coming out of it until it started dripping on the floor!! Any way, while I was at it, I sprayed up inside the body above the rear wheel arches, just to use the paint up! but will help slow the rust until I get it dipped again.




First actual repair to the shell complete!!

Thanks for reading!!

 

[Chris74#]

On it again today! Stripped a few more bits from the engine block and stashed the engine away for rebuild later. I then had to make some new brackets for the rollover jig as it won't roll all the way. Managed to sort that and then got on with the drivers side inner cill and floor.
I marked out on the existing inner cill where the new one needs to go and allowed 10mm to form a flange and cut along it with the recipe saw and grinder in the more difficult places.









We then removed the rear jacking point. 2 spot welds and it was off!





We then formed a flange on the existing cill and on the new cill so that they will fit flush ready for welding.

Just need to restore the downturn on the floor panel


Thanks for reading!!

 

[Chris74#]

So, got a couple of things done today with the help of my son! I managed to cut out and fit a repair plate to the o/s rear arch, most of this will be cut away when I fit the new cill panel but thought I would get it in for now. I











We then moved on to getting that shocking floor section out!


While Thomas drilled out the spot welds, I started to make a repair plate for the rear inner wheel arch.


Cut and formed a plate

and marked around it

After a bit of fettling and filing, I was happy with the fit. I then clamped it into place and began tack welding it into place, moving the clamps around as I went, welding as close as I could to them, to keep it flush with the existing arch material.


View from inside the arch

and outside

Sat the bracket on just to have a look, will need to find out exactly where this goes before spot welding it into position.

In between doing this, I helped Thomas cut the floor section out.




Making some good progress now, and beginning to feel a bit more confident with the welder!
Thomas went out to the 5 Campus and started to remove the front drivers seat and trims so that we can cut a replacement section of floor out of it.

Thanks for reading!

 

[DaveL485]

spot weld

What you're doing is called a plug weld (just for info), a spot weld uses a special welder with no wire or gas and basically fuses 2 bits of metal together at a pinch point (ill have pics on my 21 thread of one shortly).

Welding is dead tricky when you start off...well...it's always tricky haha the piss thin french tin makes it incredibly difficult for beginners. What you want to try and get to is like this (not that I am an expert by any means!)



Power and wire speed are directly related, more power, more wire speed.
If your weld is standing too proud the wire speed is too high for the voltage, drop wire speed or raise current.
If it's crackly and not pooling the wire speed is too low, raise the wire speed or drop the current.
If the weld looks like pigeon shit, you probably need to up the gas (or hold the torch closer, I hold it about 10mm away, the further away the more the gas dissipates and you lose the shroud of inert gas around the pool)

Settings vary depending on metal thickness, and whether you are plugging, welding an overlapped join or welding a butt join (the latter being the hardest and easiest to blow holes). Overlaps are far easier like the image above.

If i'm shifting to a new area and a different metal thickness I try and set the welder up on some scrap/spare first, i'll use the bit of car I cut out thats destined for the bin and an offcut of whatever I made the new bit out of.

I always try and weld downwards or at a downward angle at least, gravity makes a difference, with a spit it makes it easier.

If I am butt welding and i can access the back of the panel, i'll try and hold an old brass hammer head behind the weld point. The brass won't weld to the steel, and absorbs some of the heat and provides some support and helps against holes blowing through. If I cant get the brass in there I try and use a flat bit of copper held with mole grips.

Erm....I think thats it, I might be talking crap thats just the bilge thats exited my brain that its remembered from my last 18 months of welding up that shed in my garage. Someone that does it properly may come along in a minute to give you the proper gen!

 

[Chris74#]

What you're doing is called a plug weld (just for info), a spot weld uses a special welder with no wire or gas and basically fuses 2 bits of metal together at a pinch point (ill have pics on my 21 thread of one shortly).

Welding is dead tricky when you start off...well...it's always tricky haha the piss thin french tin makes it incredibly difficult for beginners. What you want to try and get to is like this (not that I am an expert by any means!)

View attachment 152558

Power and wire speed are directly related, more power, more wire speed.
If your weld is standing too proud the wire speed is too high for the voltage, drop wire speed or raise current.
If it's crackly and not pooling the wire speed is too low, raise the wire speed or drop the current.
If the weld looks like pigeon shit, you probably need to up the gas (or hold the torch closer, I hold it about 10mm away, the further away the more the gas dissipates and you lose the shroud of inert gas around the pool)

Settings vary depending on metal thickness, and whether you are plugging, welding an overlapped join or welding a butt join (the latter being the hardest and easiest to blow holes). Overlaps are far easier like the image above.

If i'm shifting to a new area and a different metal thickness I try and set the welder up on some scrap/spare first, i'll use the bit of car I cut out thats destined for the bin and an offcut of whatever I made the new bit out of.

I always try and weld downwards or at a downward angle at least, gravity makes a difference, with a spit it makes it easier.

If I am butt welding and i can access the back of the panel, i'll try and hold an old brass hammer head behind the weld point. The brass won't weld to the steel, and absorbs some of the heat and provides some support and helps against holes blowing through. If I cant get the brass in there I try and use a flat bit of copper held with mole grips.

Erm....I think thats it, I might be talking crap thats just the bilge thats exited my brain that its remembered from my last 18 months of welding up that shed in my garage. Someone that does it properly may come along in a minute to give you the proper gen!

@DaveL485 that’s great info and I really appreciate it. It has only been the last day or so that I have seen the weld ‘pooling’. I know my welding isn’t pretty at the moment, but I’m sure the shed in my garage will assist my welding ability!
Any further tips are more than welcome. Thanks.

 

[Steve Swan]

Go carefully when chopping out rot. It is easy to cut away too much at once, and get the car slightly out of shape, and bloody near impossible to sort out. Looking at your repair sills I would be tempted to get a hold of a spotwelder to fit the parts together, Although if you've drilled everything for plugging then it is too late. If you haven't yet it is worth considering . Both surfaces must be clean and close fitting then clamp up and spot. Done. You may be able to hire one for this. It is essential to set it up on some spare metal first, which is good practice in any welding operation as Dave said previously. You will be at your most proficient right at the end of the job. That's just how it is

 

[Turbell]

^^^^ That
And choose the panels you're gonna fit, and keep trying them, dry build, a slight difference on a return on a panel can cause you real drama.
I've done cars and dry built them and gaps right, had them painted and still takes ages to get everything lined up, 2mm here turns into 7mm at a different place on a panel run.
Leaving top of outer sill will have left some strength in shell length ways, but be careful with shell on a spit like that, they're no doubt great for access, but your supporting the shell at the extreme ends, think about your modern car having large parts of it replaced because of accident damage, it'll be on a table type jig, supported as it's cut out.
Plugs weld are great, but easy to look good and actually be shit, have a practice and make sure you're getting penetration, I've done them and they look good but 'pop' off , takes a lot of power fuse it properly.
I'd deffo cut into those rear beam mounts, they'll be grot waiting for you, outer will look solid 'cos of heavy gauge steel.
You're investing big on this, take your time and it'll be golden, you'll save a mint on welding cost and have a beautiful shell, the most important part of a car, everything after that is just icing and decoration.
Good luck.

 

[Chris74#]

Bit of an update!

Starting cutting into the donor Car




Decided to have a go at fully welding the front sub frame - wish I hadn't started!!

Shiny bits!!




Back to cutting the donor car!


What a battle that was!




















New original back box!





Floor in!



Inner cill ready for plug welding!



Got on with it but decided to fully weld the inner cill!




New rear jacking points

Test fit of new outer cill


Inner & Outer cill primed.

 

[Chris74#]

More updates!













Outer cill in and fully welded!

Rear axle back from the powder coaters!


Inner rear cill - new panel that I made!



Cut out a couple of rust patches and welded new metal in!

 

[DaveL485]

Significant progress there mate, well done. Getting on with the welding OK? Some of your seams there look great

 

[Chris74#]

@DaveL485 Thanks for the comment Dave. Still struggling a little with the welding, but it is definitely improving. The o/s rear bumper connection that I made and welded in months ago had to come out, every time I looked at it I cringed!! Had to cut right up to the petrol cap opening to remove it, but I am much happier with this result, what a difference some good advice and a bit of practice can make!




Luckily I'd just finished off the shreddies so had some template material!!


I stuck the cardboard on to the car and leant inside to mark it up, only to be greeted with the message below......complete fluke!!



I then marked around the offset piece. This was a proper head scratcher!!







I then got to work bending it!


Then for some trial fitting and trimming!

At this point I realised that I had cut it wrong, and the wheel arch section is too low!! So I got a straight edge and checked the other side. Got the measurements and adjusted this by cutting some out so that it matches the other side.


Thats better!! Right drill the holes out and try to press the larger hole through!

Take it off, give it a clean with the wire brush and then on with the welding!


A much better job than the first attempt!

@DaveL485 Plug welds in the rear!

I am really happy with that result! the welding went ok too! No blowing holes all over the place, and spending more time trying to weld the holes I've blown rather than the actual job.
Thanks for reading!