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21 Turbo Amrits Red Rocket
- Thread starter DaveL485
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- 21 turbo renault 21 turbo
la21t
Well-Known Member
Im on 325bhp&324lbft for last 2yrs and not had a shaft to change yet.
21 shafts are like boxers forearms
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DaveL485
Staff member
If he wants to push it then fine by me, but considering the amount of time, effort and money gone into dragging this thing back from the brink of scrap metal i'd take my 300 and run. Enjoy it for a while, sort the bodywork, upgrade the brakes, engine mounts, the rest of the exhaust system needs expanding to 3", maybe the same for the intercooler and pipework. Then do a bit of boundary pushing.
But...his car, his choice. I can but advise.
DaveL485
Staff member
It'll snap the primary shaft before a driveshaft, never seen a driveshaft fail for power reasons yet!
am21t
Well-Known Member
I broke 2 r/h shafts on that very car!
Both coming out of Woodcote at Goodwood.
In 12 months.. broke the cv & the other twisted on the spline.
[emoji23]
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la21t
Well-Known Member
Blimey!!! Im rather pleased that I have 8 shafts sat in a box lol
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DaveL485
Staff member
That suggests there's other forces in play then, a combination of forces and loadings to create a failure. Inside or outside wheel?
DaveL485
Staff member
MOT attempt 2.
Brake failure on the brake tester.
Yes, again, twice running, no i'm not joking. Fuming.
The brake test went fine until the handbrake check, OS tested fine, 5 clicks on the lever but as we did the nearside efficiency the handbrake gave and hit the stop. I thought a cable had broken but when I got under it as he finished the test and examined it the cable was fine. A quick wiggle of the handbrake levers on each caliper suggests that the NS one has broken the lobe on the mechanism or something inside has bust meaning its not actuating the pad any more.
Whaddya say? I don't know. Sick to the back teeth of this thing now.
Brake failure on the brake tester.
Yes, again, twice running, no i'm not joking. Fuming.
The brake test went fine until the handbrake check, OS tested fine, 5 clicks on the lever but as we did the nearside efficiency the handbrake gave and hit the stop. I thought a cable had broken but when I got under it as he finished the test and examined it the cable was fine. A quick wiggle of the handbrake levers on each caliper suggests that the NS one has broken the lobe on the mechanism or something inside has bust meaning its not actuating the pad any more.
Whaddya say? I don't know. Sick to the back teeth of this thing now.
On the last engine build that had it had more torque than a Subaru Impreza, Used to break loose the front wheels in 5th gear!
Used to do many Goodwood track days as I knew a Marshall who worked there.
I broke F146 many times going there,
2 L/H shafts & had 2 g/boxes!
Lost drive on one.. never knew what broke inside, just swapped the box.. having had 14 21Ts over 5 years had many many spares. [emoji23].
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DaveL485
Staff member
Changed the caliper after Amrit brought one up. Nope, still the same. Confused. Stripped whole handbrake assembly apart and found the culprit, a misrouted handbrake cable over stressed the sheath and it broke the plug that sits in the chassis end and stripped it back up the cable giving the play.
Couldn't see it from underneath without removing it. New cable required.
Turbo support trimmed and fitted up.
And reconnected the actuator. A selfie camera is useful for 'seeing' under the turbo.
Loaded for a trip tomorrow.
Couldn't see it from underneath without removing it. New cable required.
Turbo support trimmed and fitted up.
And reconnected the actuator. A selfie camera is useful for 'seeing' under the turbo.
Loaded for a trip tomorrow.
Andyquadra
Well-Known Member
Dave, is RR1 weighted in the middle, looks like a lot of car behind the axle
Is that a 9 on the drive? Turbo?
DaveL485
Staff member
Yes and yes, Phase one. I've had one random passer-by stop and chat about it, a "spotted" pic on the Autoshite FB page, and three people try and buy it so far this year
Balanced just right, drove there and back lovely @ 60mph. If I nose it up the front the arse end of the Volvo is on the deck!
DaveL485
Staff member
So, 8am I was rudely awakened by an RS6 grumbling past announcing the arrival of @am21t. Eventually got up, loaded some kit and left at 9am for EFI Parts. Arrived at maybe 11:40 after a fuel stop and a detour due to roadworks near the destination. Car already on rollers was behind, we didnt get on until maybe half 12 (booked for 12) but no biggy. It got strapped down and we fecked about for a few minutes hooking in a knock sensor, and the ZT3 wasn't talking to the ECU. Looks like a problem with the 3.5 to 2.5mm step-down plug for the serial port. Chris also pointed out my MAC valve pipework was wrong, which confused me as it was plumbed exactly how mine was. I swapped the ports around, I now realise it's because I run an external gate and my valve regulates pressure to the back side of the diaphragm, where this is an internal gate with a single port actuator. Then Chris started doing some preliminary tweaks but it was behaving odd. After 15-20 mins we he suggested we check the timing BTDC angle, so we strobed it and it was out by 5° on the TDC mark (so we thought). A bit more mapping commenced with that adjusted but it still wasn't quite right, and after some tooth-sucking and discussion he suggested the crank sensor polarity might be inverted. Now, on my car, it wouldn't run when the crank sensor was inverted (the 420c didnt care which way around the wires were, but the 420d when I upgraded, did, and it wouldn't start). When I hooked it all up and it ran I assumed it was right, because it ran (the sensor came with the engine and has no markings or anything to tell me which wire was which). Luckily I left the harness accessible so we flipped it over and it was much better but it had to be retimed again...shock horror out by 5° so back to the original BTDC angle. Such fun! (not). My mistake on that one, I guess.
Then we just sat and watched Chris work his magic and revs slowly increased, until we got to about 250hp and 250 torque at 15psi (ish). At that point we had to change the 6-rated plugs back to the 7's, as they were far too hot (interesting colour on the 6's). The inverted crank sensor/timing out would explain the sooting of the plugs on the 7's too I reckon so that should stop now. Once that was done (burned fingers, nice!) it ran again and crept up further. We got to 19Psi and it blew the pressure sensor for the aftermarket boost gauge out of the plenum(!) - so we plugged the hole and carried on. Why did it choose today to pop out? You tell me! FFS.
20psi, 281 brake, 295 torque, we give the thumbs up to push a bit further, so close to the 300/300 target, within 6% hp and 2% of the fist bump, high five, lets go home mark.
Next run, it spins up and just boost right into the safety cut. And again. we shut down and check none of the regulation pipework has come off....all OK. We faffed about but couldnt find anything wrong that was obvious so we put a mityvac on the wastegate line and it wouldnt hold pressure - so a bit of detective work suggested the MAC valve was dodgy. We swapped it for a new one, though it seemed odd as they're robust items. We noted some brown crap inside the valve inlet. The new valve worked and we got a clean pull at 20psi again, the next pull was a teeny bit more boost and clean till very high in the revs (maybe 5000) but then spiked into the cut. We removed the MAC and the inlet had brown crap in it again....what the hell? Where can that come from?
At this point it was 4pm, the guy for the 3pm mapping slot had been very patient and we decided to call it. I need to find out where that gunk is coming from thats yukking the MAC valve, how very strange. It had all three of us shrugging and looking quizzical.
Chris is confident it will see 300hp with another hour on the dyno, to be honest I think we did pretty well with the problems we had to work through. More importantly, we got through a tough session alive, saw good strong numbers, and the car now runs so, so much better. Night and day. I talk a pretty good game but the experience he has and the way he applies it is fantastic and reminds me that I should probably stick to spreadsheets and chocolate
All weighed up, today has been a big jump forwards.
TL : DR> Went mapping. Had some hiccups, but got 281bhp and 295 lb/ft @ 20psi with more to come and ran out of time.
Then we just sat and watched Chris work his magic and revs slowly increased, until we got to about 250hp and 250 torque at 15psi (ish). At that point we had to change the 6-rated plugs back to the 7's, as they were far too hot (interesting colour on the 6's). The inverted crank sensor/timing out would explain the sooting of the plugs on the 7's too I reckon so that should stop now. Once that was done (burned fingers, nice!) it ran again and crept up further. We got to 19Psi and it blew the pressure sensor for the aftermarket boost gauge out of the plenum(!) - so we plugged the hole and carried on. Why did it choose today to pop out? You tell me! FFS.
20psi, 281 brake, 295 torque, we give the thumbs up to push a bit further, so close to the 300/300 target, within 6% hp and 2% of the fist bump, high five, lets go home mark.
Next run, it spins up and just boost right into the safety cut. And again. we shut down and check none of the regulation pipework has come off....all OK. We faffed about but couldnt find anything wrong that was obvious so we put a mityvac on the wastegate line and it wouldnt hold pressure - so a bit of detective work suggested the MAC valve was dodgy. We swapped it for a new one, though it seemed odd as they're robust items. We noted some brown crap inside the valve inlet. The new valve worked and we got a clean pull at 20psi again, the next pull was a teeny bit more boost and clean till very high in the revs (maybe 5000) but then spiked into the cut. We removed the MAC and the inlet had brown crap in it again....what the hell? Where can that come from?
At this point it was 4pm, the guy for the 3pm mapping slot had been very patient and we decided to call it. I need to find out where that gunk is coming from thats yukking the MAC valve, how very strange. It had all three of us shrugging and looking quizzical.
Chris is confident it will see 300hp with another hour on the dyno, to be honest I think we did pretty well with the problems we had to work through. More importantly, we got through a tough session alive, saw good strong numbers, and the car now runs so, so much better. Night and day. I talk a pretty good game but the experience he has and the way he applies it is fantastic and reminds me that I should probably stick to spreadsheets and chocolate
All weighed up, today has been a big jump forwards.
TL : DR> Went mapping. Had some hiccups, but got 281bhp and 295 lb/ft @ 20psi with more to come and ran out of time.
Last edited:
Andyquadra
Well-Known Member
did you take it out round the industrial estate?
DaveL485
Staff member
Nope, no wastegate control to regulate boost remember!
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