ALL MEMBERS PLEASE READ - V6 coil failures

[k1ano]

For information ...

I opened up a faulty coil the other night and they look pretty simple inside. The only thing I could see that may have failed was a diode, cause actually apart from a metal core and the coil windings there isn't anything else in there. I haven't tested the diode yet or determined the type to see if this was the fault.

If the diode is the fault then it would be maybe a question of an electrical engineer providing some input as to what type of event may cause this type of diode to fail i.e. underated component, power surge, service life, short circuit etc. The diode could be compared with that of one of the 'newer' coils to see if they are the same and indeed whether the coil is the same inside full-stop.

Martin

 

[Miguel 4747]

I have just changed all my coils for the trophy set i bought from SG. If you need a working one to examine/test just PM me your address.

 

[phillv6]

Well the inevitable happened last night !!! Coil failed, I managed to replace it with the spare that I carry, and then 20 yards down the road it's back onto 5 cylinders :s , just wondered has anyone else had a similair situation where 2 coils have failed so close together ? I've just ordered 2 more spare coils from my local Peugeot dealer and hopefully I'll have my Vee back up and running tomorrow night.

One other thought the failure happened when there was lots of electrical load on the car ie:heater on full, wipers, headlights, rear heated windscreen all on - possible link or just coincidence ?

Cheers,

Phill

All sorted now still seems strange that two went at the same time after 22K miles in 3 and a half years :s

Phill

 

[GJHV6]

Had the car for 1 year (just under 4 years old) and the first failure occured this morning, I have the warranty history and it appears this is the first on this particular vehicle. It's approaching 21K???

Without representation on a grand scale we will not get Renault to do anything about this, and with 6 of the little blighters to go we have not heard the last of this problem!!!

 

[boyne]

Hi people, well up untill a few weeks ago i didnt know what the coil situation was all about or infact what happens when a coil goes as said untill a couple of weeks ago when i had one go on me, lack of power and sounded though i had installed some sort of hiddius exhaust system, It was number 1 coil and it took about fifteen minutes to change at my local reno dealers and about a hundred quid for new coil and fitting, the coil in question failed suddenly, My question is i think i may have another one failing but slowly???? there is a deffinate lack of response and again a little different sounding from the exhaust.... Can coils go slowly ????? anyone.

many thanks Roy ph1 vee 17,000 ml

 

[phil b]

Just had my first coil go yesterday. Waiting outside a friends house. As I pulled away I noticed the car was not running smooth. Looked at the dash and the engine light is on. Car has had 3 coils down to date and is an 05 with 14k . Good thing it is still under warranty. Is there anywhere that will tell me which coil it is and how to replace it???

 

[Duncan]

i thought i had one go the other night, the engine light came on, the car sounded like a tractor and was mis firing...i delicatly got it home, went to fit a new coil in the morning, got the covers off, fired the car up, and it was running perfectly.....very odd.

im sure that one is about to go very soon, fingers crossed its one of the reachables!!

 

[Suggs]

Some possible imformation.... (posted on behalf of someone else - you know who you are :wink: )

Someone who does research/development work with the laguna V6 engine (which i believe we have in our vee's?) has commented that the coil failures could be down to the plugs getting dirty/sooted. If there is no spark due to a dirty plug then the electrical current goes straight to the coils potentially causing them to fail due to the overloaded current.

Hope I got that right!

Any thoughts/comments?

 

[boyne]

Anotherone gone, no 2, no 1 last time so 2 in just over two months 18500 miles ph1

 

[SimonLM]

Does anyone have any knackard coils I can have?

 

[Stefan]

Just had one gone driving to work [smilie=doubt.gif] I called the Renault dealer in Veldhoven (The Netherlands) and they had a coil on stock (78 euros) but they immediately said that they would not replace it for me [smilie=icon_eek.gif] [smilie=icon_eek.gif] . What is that for BULL !!! A renault dealer who doesn't repair Renaults [smilie=drunken_smilie1.gif] [smilie=drunken_smilie1.gif] [smilie=drunken_smilie1.gif]
I had the idea to go and buy the coil, call the dutch AA and let them repair it in front of the Renault dealership :badgrin:

But I'll just go with an alternative : go to the Peugeot garage where they have 2 coils on stock (for 38 euros each) and try to put one in myself [smilie=hide.gif]
So that is the second coil after 63000 km. Not a bad score, I guess !

 

[ozbird]

Some possible imformation.... (posted on behalf of someone else - you know who you are :wink: )

Someone who does research/development work with the laguna V6 engine (which i believe we have in our vee's?) has commented that the coil failures could be down to the plugs getting dirty/sooted. If there is no spark due to a dirty plug then the electrical current goes straight to the coils potentially causing them to fail due to the overloaded current.

Hope I got that right!

Any thoughts/comments?

Thats what i believe ALSO :approve: (plugs DONT last long like the old days,with coil packs FIREING on every STROKE times BY 6. ...........10,000 miles = 60,000miles of PLUG FIREING. [smilie=bowdown.gif]

Is this a very important point?

I mean we all put up with this and even joke about it, but actually it's not funny. It's a pain.

I for one would like to know if this is true.

 

[mid.engine]

OZBIRD WROTE

Is this a very important point?

I mean we all put up with this and even joke about it, but actually it's not funny. It's a pain.

I for one would like to know if this is true.

hi ozbird, there has been a lot written on coils,
as jainy say she has had two coils go in the same cylinder in a month.
there must be something which caused these two coils to go in the same cylinder the only thing it can be is the plug.
to change a coil and not to change a plug in my opinion is madness, no one really knows what kills the coils but the plug could be the answer.
martin

 

[Jamesv6]

I'm on my 3rd set of new spark plugs in 19k miles and 5 coil failures. Even though I have the latest and supposed much improved coils, I now carry a spare.

Given these coils are fitted to Pugs, Citreons and Alfas etc, I suspect I would find similar threads on their forums.

 

[mid.engine]

I'm on my 3rd set of new spark plugs in 19k miles and 5 coil failures. Even though I have the latest and supposed much improved coils, I now carry a spare.

Given these coils are fitted to Pugs, Citreons and Alfas etc, I suspect I would find similar threads on their forums.

hi james, if i had that many coils go on my car i would want to know why,
you must of had a couple of new sets of plugs put in when you were having your engine mods done. so when you say 5 coils to three sets of plugs is wrong, it`s more like 5 coils to one set of plugs in 19000 miles.
the engine in your car has been highly modified, what we are talking about here are standard cars with standard engines, jainy had two coils go in the same cylinder in a month it don't need Einstein to work out that there must have been a problem on that cylinder. i have read so many post on here that when one coil goes is followed by two and three, this is not a coincidence, Renault , alfa romeo and the other manufactures know what is causing these coils to go and it`s down to 24000 mile service intervals, in my opinion 12000 miles service intervals would be what you would expect out of a plug in a performance car. Renault have got to have service intervals of this sort of mileage to compete against other manufactures to sell their cars, i change the plugs in my Cosworth every 2000 miles because i know the car drives and performs that much better and would have thought with the mods on your car you would naturally be doing the same. this problem will not go away, if anyone can give me a more logical answer i would like to know,
by the way i am still ( fingers crossed ) ( touch wood ) ( rub my left ear as i poke myself in the eye ) on all my original coils but have changed the plugs twice in the past year.
martin

 

[k1ano]

At the time attack event at Oulton Park on Saturday I saw highly tuned Evo's with coil-packs which I guess are similar to the Trophy ones ... With two locating bolts and a 2 pin connector.

Without taking anything away from the Trophy coil setup and suggestions to use them, I would imagine there are more generic coil packs which are an improvement on the stock units but which are more widely used and possibly a cheaper option than the Trophy ones ...

I don't have any intention to do any further research on this, I only offer some comments on my independant observations and thoughts.

Martin

 

[k1ano]

Martin (mid.engine) ...

Interesting comments ... I helped Jainy change the coil after the second failure and made an observation too which has been commented on by others privately ...

When I slid the coil down the plug hole and engaged it onto the top of the spark plug, there didnt' seem to be a positive engagement as you might generally expecty when you attach a plug lead or coil pack. It just felt as though the coil didn't engage fully or snugly on the plug top. If this is/was the case and there is a poor connection then this may cause some arcing or eletrical loss (poor description) perhaps also ?

Just another one of my observations perhaps LOL

LOL I found this article too http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2003/0070665.html
Section 0005 & 0006 may explain my observations [smilie=hide.gif]

Also found these relating to pencil coil failures or ways to reduce them ...

http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/68457/description.html
http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/66792/description.html

I would hazard a guess coil failure is more common than we think but that it is more noticeable on our cars because we are all grouped together on this forum and so can magnify the issue.

Also found this too, which may support some of the ideas by other posters ...

http://www.aftermarketnews.com/default. ... &item=5088

<snip quote>
If an engine is experiencing repeated coil failures, the coil may be working too hard. The underlying cause is usually high secondary resistance (bad spark plug wire or spark plugs), or in some cases a lean fuel condition (dirty injectors, vacuum leak or leaky EGR valve).Future coil problems can often be avoided by cleaning the connectors and terminals when the new coil is installed. Corrosion can cause intermittent operation and loss of continuity, which may contribute to component failure. Applying dielectric grease to these connections can help prevent corrosion and assure a good connection.
<snip>

Martin

 

[Suggs]

Martin (mid.engine) ...

When I slid the coil down the plug hole and engaged it onto the top of the spark plug, there didnt' seem to be a positive engagement as you might generally expecty when you attach a plug lead or coil pack. It just felt as though the coil didn't engage fully or snugly on the plug top. If this is/was the case and there is a poor connection then this may cause some arcing or eletrical loss (poor description) perhaps also ?

Just another one of my observations perhaps LOL

LOL I found this article too http://www.freepatentsonline.com/y2003/0070665.html

Section 0005 & 0006 may explain my observations [smilie=hide.gif]

Martin

Martin,

I found this when I fitted my coil a few weeks back.

 

[Jamesv6]

0006 Is most ineresting.

Without wishing to sound too crude, when fitting the coil over the spark plug I was uttering "Am I in yet?"

 

[Jamesv6]

Good point Wayne. That's why I fitted a whole set. Just had a weird feeling it might have been a good idea.