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21 Turbo 21 Turbo Quadra joins Renault 5 stable!

The rusty struts tops is a common issue now im afraid, good you have found the rust now before it had gotten much worse. Your best putting a bit of time aside and removing the front struts and giving the inner strut tops a good gutting and remove any old underseal, even if the underseal looks good you may still find the begining of corrosion present ( I did on mine) .. wire brush it clean, give the area a decent thumping to highlight any weak metal, get any rust areas welded up then treat the metal and reseal.
I cut out the small rust areas with a small dremel and had the holes welded back up.

The dash gauge doesn't really give any useful info as regards to psi .. best plum an aftermarket into the manifiold and have one on dash, very easy to do. I recently fitted a Dawes to mine aswell, just need to get rid of the amal valve now though.
 

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Propshaft bearings are readily available on eBay for £35. Search for a Scenic RX4 one. They're identical....I have one on my car right now :)

Timing belt is 115 teeth by 3/4 inch, make sure the timing is set with the right mark on the pulley and the pulley mark is set by the right mark on the timing cover.

I'd chuck the box in and see what happens. Clutch, yes, do it, if you can find one.

The box and diff use the same oil, but thats NOT the same oil as a 2wd, you need synthetic 85w90 (2wd is 75w90)

Use Head Gasket set from Payen, DX590

Expect extra cost for broken exhaust studs in the head. Make sure they're dealt with properly and not just hacked out and oversized! And remember the torque procedure I sent you on FB.
 
Just a quick update... After removing the Amal valve, I fitted the boost controller without adjusting the actuator rod. It was hard to adjust the boost controller precisely. I found that small tweaks were necessary once I was in the vicinity of the boost pressure limiting cutout activating. I adjusted it so that the cutout was just operating, then backed it off until it doesn't activate at all under any circumstances. I understand that the cutout operates at 18psi and this is the maximum that I can safely run with the standard intercoolers anyway? I haven't got a proper boost gauge yet. It's in the post. I'm also relieved that the cutout is working!

I also fitted a VAG (Volkswagen Audi Group) type recirculating dump valve in place of the original. It was a straight swap. This has no effect on performance but just sounds different. Instead of a fluttering sound, I get a definite hiss (quiet) when I lift off. Does this mean that the original valve might not have been working?

The difference from removing the Amal valve is astonishing! Especially in 1st gear. I know that Amal valve doesn't limit the boost in 1st gear on the Quadra, but the difference in "go" is like night and day. The car now feels properly quick, whereas before it felt a little bit slower than it really should have been. The main difference is the throttle response. I can now pull away gently in first and then mash the throttle. The car takes off like a scalded cat! It's amazing! The other difference is that the boost isn't quite so well controlled. In fact, you can see the boost varying slightly under WOT. The gauge fluctuates slightly and you can feel the car surging slightly. I presume this is to be expected?

I've left the dampener in place.

When I originally fitted the boost controller, I fitted it backwards (D'oh - I only found the instructions in the packet afterwards) and it didn't limit the boost at all! In fact, I blew the lower intercooler apart. I'm not bothered as it was in shocking condition. I slightly bent it in the accident and all the fins were falling out of it, so it was already weakened. I temporarily fitted the cooler from my GT Turbo. The GT Turbo one fits but is too tall. The one I have is double capacity. It will do for now. Yet another excuse to fit a FMIC!

Very pleased with the change brought about by removing the Amal.

I also have nearly all the parts I need now for my garage to do the major work over the first part of January. I now need to find a friend to help me go and pick up the gearbox from my unit! Anyone got a friend I can borrow? (Only joking)

Andrew
p.s. I have added Dave's wise words on boost, etc. to the wiki, here: http://turborenault.co.uk/mediawiki/Renault_21_Technical_Information
 
Out of interest Andrew, what happens with the 3 pipes that were on the Amal valve after you got rid of it ?
One vents to atmosphere, that can go in the bin.
The other 2, the one from the Amal with the fitting marked "C" is the feed from the boost hose. The other one is the line to the actuator. Fit your boost controller between these 2 hoses.

Andrew- The amal valve phases boost according to throttle position. Without it, well, it doesn't. It'll come on boost a lot more aggressively (as you have found).
You will now have lost the boost limiter when engine temp is < 50 centigrade so be careful with your throttle when it's cold. It'll boost up very quick.
The difference in noise from the recirc valve will be spring rate....the flatter hiss will be because the spring is weaker in the new valve. If you refit the old one and remove the dampener you will get a noticable but subtle chatter on gearshift.
The overboost cut is about 18, though some vary slightly with age. A multimeter and a mityvac is the best way to check and recalibrate. You can adjust the cut point with the screw in the middle of the 2 spade connectors. DO NOT mess with it if you don't have a mityvac and multimeter to verify the adjustment. Send it to me if you want it adjusting and you don't have the right kit.
Don't go any higher on boost now unless you plan on management or a remap, you'll be risking reliability.
 
Thanks, Dave! Yes, aware of the loss of boost limit when water temp is low. I wonder if my car might be missing its thermostat as it seems to take a long time to warm up. I will be fitting a new one anyway. So I have been and will continue to be gentle with the throttle when the engine is cold. I am always anyway. I would definitely like to send you the boost cut out sensor to check. It would be good if it were set at 20psi so I could reliably boost to 18. Presumably if I were to adjust the actuator rod a bit, and only rely on the boost controller for the "last bit" of adjustment, I might get slightly more stable boost control.

I don't plan to go to management or a remap at the moment.

Thanks for answering the questions on the Amal valve. Definitely, definitely prefer the car without it. It's awesome! Before, I found the acceleration slightly disappointing. Now it's loads of fun!

On another matter, where is the relay for the auxiliary water pump? My pump runs all the time...

Andrew
 
On another matter, where is the relay for the auxiliary water pump? My pump runs all the time...
Under this cover behind the battery
05.webp

Its the black relay
06.webp
Its a timed relay so "any old relay" won't cut it. You need something like:
eBay item [HASHTAG]#171119274562[/HASHTAG]
Although thats a quick google return so I bet you could get cheaper. Basically the pump circuit is off while the ign is on, but then activates when the ign is turned off for 10-12 mins, then turns off.

Every time I have had to replace one i've had a spare lying about so never sourced an alternative. If you find one, lemme know so I can get some for the shop :)
 

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OK - I found the timer relay. Interesting idea for finding a generic replacement. I'll look into it.
Also gets me thinking about the Amal valve in more detail. I can see why it was done. For a large saloon, when new, it seems a good idea to focus on refinement, fuel economy and reliablilty. But if we now find ourselves hankering after performance, then do away with it? Now that the cars are older and we use them for fun, then that should be the pursuit and the ultimate aim.
I learn something new every day!
The gearbox is now at my local garage. Ready for work to start in the New Year. I'll be dropping the car off to them on Wednesday.
 
p.s. I think we will be very lucky to find a drop-in pin-compatible timer relay, but there might be something that can be adapted. It might even be possible to design a circuit that could be built into the case of an old relay that has failed. I have had mine apart and there's no sign of any visible damage but it does smell "burnt". I'd like to check a few things with my multimeter but I don't hold out much hope of being able to fix it.
 
p.p.s. I see it uses this programmable timer IC: http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-pdf/pdf/11989/ONSEMI/MC14541BCP.html
I suspect that the timer IC is fine. Most likely fault is that the single on-board electrolytic capacitor has failed. I could try replacing it! There's also a transistor, which could be a likely candidate for failure. I can't see what type it is without removing it. I have capacitor and transistor testers, so it might be fun to investigate further...
 
p.s. I think we will be very lucky to find a drop-in pin-compatible timer relay,
Not really. It's a 5-pin standard pattern unlike something like a GTT fuel pump relay so i'd say there's a reasonable chance....the one I linked I found in under 60 seconds. The biggest problem is filtering out all the wiper and indicator relays from the results and finding what you actually need.

Who knows, the Renault part might even be cheap - stranger things have happened! Maybe I could ask @Red21 to facilitate us with a price?
 
Thanks! I found that relay. I could be wrong but don't think it's the same pinout. Of course it could be adapted. I have checked all the discrete components in mine and they are fine. That just leaves the main timer IC. I've managed to find some on eBay and in the meantime have fitted an IC socket to the PCB, which awaits the new IC when it arrives!
 
The Renault relay seems to be missing pin 3... That's what leads me to suspect it's not standard.
Here's a photo of the innards with the IC socket fitted.
IMAG0214.webp
 
A brief update! I managed to get a refund for the propshaft bearing I bought on eBay fr. Thank goodness as it cost me £200 including postage! I attempted to cancel the transaction before the vendor posted it and I am lucky that he agreed to cancel. It's very cheeky of him to sell the RX4 bearing for several times its worth just to appeal to Quadra owners.
Inner wing from another car (F670 LPJ) should arrive with me today. I was out yesterday when the courier arrived! I will post photos when it gets here...
Andrew
 
It's very cheeky of him to sell the RX4 bearing for several times its worth just to appeal to Quadra owners.

No different every time you shop at EuroCarParts, GSF or anywhere else. Their price to trade is +33% on cost usually let alone to joe public. It's sheer luck that the chap who clocked the Scenic bearing spotted it and then shared that info with us all and also the scenic parts are plentiful enough to be cheap through price competition.

This is why communities like this are invaluable. As long as everyone continues to pay it forward we'll all be golden :)
 
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