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Won't start!

Mr Webb

New Member
Hi guys can anyone offer any guidance??

Drove the Clio about 100 miles today and all was fine. Car got a little hot and the fan came on a couple of times.

Stopped off at a Sainsburys about half a mile from home to get some bits. Left car for about 30 mins then when I restarted it was running rough and engine management light came on. I'm sure this was a coil gone so no drama as only half a mile to home and have a spare.

Stopped the car outside house and got my tools. Took covers off then tried to start the car to find the dodgy coil and it won't start! Turns over but won't fire up.

Noticed it was dripping water so removed bonnet liner and it is dripping from a rubbery pipe at the front drivers side of the car onto the front suspension. Is this an overflow pipe or something??

Not sure what's happened but it's an hour later, water temp still half and it still won't start! Still dripping too.

Any ideas anyone?

Cheers.
David.
 
Car started this morning a little bit more reluctantly than usual but runs absolutely fine. Took out for about ten miles and all seams ok with the temperature and running. No need to change a coil which I thought could have been the initial issue.

Car was definitely misfiring like a faulty coil last night.

Engine management light still on but I know that clears eventually.

Baffled now as to what happened?

Anyone had anything similar?

Cheers.
 
Might be a long shot, and I don't mean to alarm, but the engine didn't 'nip' up did it due to overheating ?

Maybe ensure coolant is bled and fully topped up ...

Martin
 
I didn't notice it seizing. It drove the last half a mile like it was missing a coil but then when I got to the house I turned it off and it wouldn't re-start.

I thought it may be an engine management / engine preservation type thing but I was not expecting it to run smoothly without having to change a coil the next day.

When you have been on a long trip and then get stuck in traffic the fans kick in but then should you wait for them to finish before switching the car off?

Its due a service so will get everything checked out.

Cheers.
 
thanks James.

I am wondering whether it could it be a head gasket issue?

A few things do not make sense - why it wouldn't re-start until cooled down and why the next day it didn't misfire at all.

Do coils tempoarily fail when they get too hot and then sort themselves out when cool ???!

I am going to start the car later having left for 30+ hours and see what happens on cold start up. If it misfires at any point during start or lots of water fires out the exhausts I think this will be proof of a blown head gasket somewhere. Going to get a snifer test done too at the weekend.

Also another novice question but does the car have scuttle drainage pipes? I will post a photo of where the water was dripping from in the hope someone can tell me what it is. It was at the front of the car near the firewall on the drivers side. Wouldn't anything to do with the cooling system overflow be at the rear of the car?

Cheers.
 
The reason I mentioned 'nipping' up is that if an engine overheats it can temporarily loose power and sieze, when it cools down it may restart again. If water is low or there are air-locks the temp gauge may not show an overheating condition.

I only mentioned this, without wanting to overly alarm you, as you described these symptoms in conjunction with some evidence of coolant loss and after diagnosing no faults with coils.

Martin
 
Cheers Martin appreciate the advice.

What was dripping seamed to be clear water with no smell or colour and i'm surprised it was coming out of the front if the water coolant tank is at the back.

I need to find out what this pipe is and if it should be connected to anything.

Cheers.
 
Mr Webb":tghdekq3 said:
Cheers Martin appreciate the advice.

What was dripping seamed to be clear water with no smell or colour and i'm surprised it was coming out of the front if the water coolant tank is at the back.

I need to find out what this pipe is and if it should be connected to anything.

Cheers.

Clear water maybe not an issue then :-) .. washer jets are prone to leaking and it could be standing water from the scuttle as I think you have indicated ... but don't forget the coolant hoses go under the car to the front radiator and there are several bleed points in the hoses (front and back) to eliminate air-locks. I think the manuals listed in the knowledge base, or my thermostat change article, explain the bleeding procedure if you wanted to be sure.

Martin
 
How much water is it dripping? This water could be evaporate from the air con unit. Just a thought. I think this comes out of a drop pipe on the drivers side, I may be wrong. Perhaps this is nothing to do with your non starting problem. During hot weather the air con unit can drop quite a bit of clear water.

It might be worth taking a couple of spark plugs out and check the condition of them.

Also if suspecting Head Gasket failure. Open the oil filler cap and see if theres any 'mayo' in there, oil and water mixed forms a white goey crap that will deposit itself on the inside of the cap. Thats sometimes a giveaway. Check the expansion bottle for miscoloured water. Have you checked the dipstick manually to see what the oil level is like and colour?

Id also open the airbox and check to see the condition of the airfilter.

When was the car last serviced?

Check simple stuff first before assuming the worst ... ie head gasket failure, or siezure.
 
Well first of all lets get rid of the siezure issue. Its turning over on the starter motor so the bottom end sounds fine. Next step, check that you have spark. If I remember correctly, the reason most of the older coils used to blow was through them perishing due to heat. If your cylinder heads got silly hot, there maybe a slim chance that a few have been pushed on by the last outing. If you have spark, check fuel. I do know vees or ph1's at least can suffer from fuel vapourization when the rear of the engine bays get overly hot. Mine used to do it regulary but I changed a fitting on the rear firewall. This cured it. If, spark, fuel and inlet are all clear then the next step would be to do a compression check or leak down test. This would show if the head gaskets have given way, the liners have cracked/ovaled or if there is a problem with the valve train. It wouldn't be hard to damage a pair of heads by switching the engine straight off whilst the water temp is sky high. With no water flowing through them and a fair bit of heat soak it always best to leave it running for a minute or two at slow speeds.
 
Thanks for the replies guys.

I tried the car last night. I was a little tentative with the turn over but it started 3rd time and seamed to run fine. No water came from the exhausts and didn't appear to be misfiring.

I will start with the easier things suggested and go from there. When I'm sure its OK to drive I think i will get it looked at and serviced.

The pipe where the water was dripping from is in this photo. I would say at least a pint dripped out.

Anyone got any ideas what it is for? Scuttle drainage, AC or something more serious?!!

Cheers.


cliopipe-1-1.jpg
 
I can't quite orientate myself as to what/where that pipe is but it looks like a coolant pipe and has it chaffed on the black metal pipe at the top of the picture (where they cross), there is a slight colour change on the hose in that area from the picture ?

Whatever you do it has to be a systematic diagnosis of one or more the main systems or elimination of one or all of them ... Where you start depends on your symptoms and we all have different views on what your symptoms point too - serious or minor.

Some further ideas ...

Engine management - check for fault codes using OBD scanner, even if the CEL (check engine light) is not illumintaed.
Cooling system - which is where I came from, eliminate this by checking and monitoring coolant levels and temperature and, if you can, measure combustion gases in the coolant.
Starting system - starter motors are prone to partial failure which can mean slow cranking despite a fully charged and healthy battery.
Ignition system - again if the car starts this may be OK but you can check coils and spark plugs for fouling and operation.
Electrical system - fairly easy to diagnose with electrical tests but again the car starts and runs so more likely to be an engine system. Battery voltage is important though.
Fuel system - fuel flow and pressure can indicate pump or fuel filter issues.
Engine mechanicals & static timing - timing can cause starting and running issues, less likely to be an issue unless some fault with cambelt, pulleys, water pump, tensioner etc. other mechanical issues like head-gasket, compression may also be relevant and more difficult to test unless you have the equipment. Of course we hope it isn't anything of this nature but any coolant issues and testing would be key here.

I would also consider OBD diagnostic fault code scanning as essential to see if any fault codes are logged.

Martin
 
That's the AC drainage. It's obviously right below where the AC pipes enter the the ventilation unit. As mentioned above clear water isn't an issue even when it comes out of the cold exhaust.

Anyway I suggest you let someone with knowledge and most important proper tools work this out. Because they can easily test the whole engine management, coils, dysfunctionality or coolant loss in the cooling system, fuel pressure and pressure hold after shutdown and a few other things which cover almost all the possible failures.
 
Cheers, I've got someone booked in to do just that.

It wasn't a hot day but was wet and a little humid. I was surprised quite how much water was coming out and as it happened at the same time the car wouldn't start it got me thinking it was to do with the cooling system! I also couldn't work out where the other end of that pipe went as it disappears into the firewall!

Thanks for all the advice!
 
Thats deffo the A/C drain hose, Can you hear the fuel pump priming when you key on the ignition ? ?

We went round the houses last year with a members car that wouldn't start and it was the fuel cut off switch that needed reset after it took a knock from the front tub being taken out.....


Worth a quick check.......
 
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