Renault parts

[Andyquadra]

look at UAD at 21 psi holding with cossie 3 bar map sensor, cossie fpr and downpipe back (atm) cossie mongoose system soon to have a cossie 4x4 t3 turbo with cossie downpipe

You've had the ecu reprogrammed? didn't know anyone in the UK could do that.

 

[Ren21Turbo]

yeah its fairly easy to do its the fairly std eprom almost the same as a cossie l8 ecu, ive done it myself with a help of a friend with a dyno road in littlehampton

 

[DaveL485]

plus why would u run over 14.7 psi if you only running 2 bar map sensor thats just dumb lol and the j7r 752 engine can take 20+ any day of the week if setup right

Because you can get away with it by using up the built in safety margins Renault allowed. That safety margin runs out at 18-19Psi.

I'll ask one more question- do you realise how much money you need to spend to make a reliable 12v conversion work? If you think it's bolt-on-and-go then I suggest you take a step back and have a think :witless:

---------- Post added at 04:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:25 PM ----------

You've had the ecu reprogrammed? didn't know anyone in the UK could do that.

There's a guy oop north that can, he did Gary Snowballs motor with an EPROM. 265 horses IIRC.

 

[Ren21Turbo]

infact you dont need to spend any money if you got the right gear and know the right people, plus it kinder helps when you have a dad that been doing r21's for years and got a few bits and pieces i would put my dads r21t lump in with all the 12v/euro cup setup gear but he may use that as he keeps telling me lol

dave not have a poke at you but why would you use a 2 bar map sensor even if its sort of ok at 18psi when you could just run a 3 bar map sensor and be safe and read correct, thats like says on ur car u need 4 wheels nuts to hold your wheel on but it will be ok on 3, you just dont do it to your pride and joy understandable if you dont care about it and its a shed of a car that your going to scrap then fine but i just couldnt do that know that it could kill the engine because i couldnt be bothered to sort it right.

 

[MakeEverything]

understandable if you dont care about it and its a shed of a car that your going to Blow it up then fine

edited to hit the nail on the head....

Lots of love,

"Owner of the car that looks like a multipla that has been hit with a hammer!"

 

[Ren21Turbo]

edited to hit the nail on the head....

Lots of love,

"Owner of the car that looks like a multipla that has been hit with a hammer!"

thats funny

cheers

 

[DaveL485]

infact you dont need to spend any money if you got the right gear and know the right people, plus it kinder helps when you have a dad that been doing r21's for years and got a few bits and pieces i would put my dads r21t lump in with all the 12v/euro cup setup gear but he may use that as he keeps telling me lol

dave not have a poke at you but why would you use a 2 bar map sensor even if its sort of ok at 18psi when you could just run a 3 bar map sensor and be safe and read correct, thats like says on ur car u need 4 wheels nuts to hold your wheel on but it will be ok on 3, you just dont do it to your pride and joy understandable if you dont care about it and its a shed of a car that your going to scrap then fine but i just couldnt do that know that it could kill the engine because i couldnt be bothered to sort it right.

Because I can get away with it thats why. And its free. No tossing about with EPROMs, mapping and the like on what is a 20 year old, limited system. I've used OE management- not even a 'chip' for over a Decade. Mapped or not, i'd put cash on the line to say that i'd beat you on torque any day of the week.
I'd be interested to see what 'euro cup' gear will stop you melting the 12v exhaust valves, stop the valve float at high boost, or suddenly change the NA camshaft to suit a Turbo car.

Now though I'm going outside the range of an OE system, it's time to upgrade. Properly. And there's no contest between an EPROM and modern Standalone, whatever unit it may be so thats my choice.


I mean, not that I condone racing on the streets or anything, but....well....come out to play and we'll see what your made of

 

[Ren21Turbo]

you see i find this funny that u think i just put on std items and its my frist time playing with cars plus you have no idea what the UAD has be setup like and that it keeps up with proven 330bhp cossies. (not just behind them side by side and m3's well they are dinner for UAD lol its fun u wanna try it sometime)also if ur running 18psi vs a 21psi cossie turbo 21 with front mount intercooler who do u think will win (for the record iam not bothered about whos car is quicker because iam happy with the cars i have and that i can do everything for my car so far without worry)

---------- Post added at 061 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:23 PM ----------

"I'd be interested to see what 'euro cup' gear will stop you melting the 12v exhaust valves, stop the valve float at high boost, or suddenly change the NA camshaft to suit a Turbo car."

so you dont know then that the 12v exhaust valves are sodaium filled valves as std or that if u you use 2.2td twin valves springs that they will take anything anyone car throw at them (besides cutting them dow!)that the N/A cam works fine on a the turbo setup if you know how to dail them in, plus cat cams can make you a turbo cam if you want for ur 12v so yeah ill keep using a very good system that works fine that really isnt that limited if understand how renault used the item (for the record i dont know about if phase 2/3 systems are the same to map as i have not tryed yet or needed to yet)

cheers

p.s
i forgot to add u dont need to map ur car to install a 3 bar map sensor for the ecu to read it correcty.

 

[DaveL485]

"I'd be interested to see what 'euro cup' gear will stop you melting the 12v exhaust valves, stop the valve float at high boost, or suddenly change the NA camshaft to suit a Turbo car."

so you dont know then that the 12v exhaust valves are sodaium filled valves as std

Wrong. The Turbo ones are, the 12v ones are not. 36.4x7x111.8, 30.4x7x111.9 and 40.1x7x112.

And it's Sodium*.

or that if u you use 2.2td twin valves springs that they will take anything anyone car throw at them (besides cutting them dow!)

Um....riiiight. Seats? Collets? Retainers? Epic fail.

that the N/A cam works fine on a the turbo setup if you know how to dail them in,

So you can 'dial in' a cam that will reduce the overlap and stop blow-through? Excellent, I must know how, do tell.....

plus cat cams can make you a turbo cam if you want for ur 12v so yeah ill keep using a very good system that works fine that really isnt that limited if understand how renault used the item (for the record i dont know about if phase 2/3 systems are the same to map as i have not tryed yet or needed to yet)

Yes, I know. Do you know how much this billet camshaft is? I do. Which makes my initial point of cost very, very valid and also invalidates your 'plug and play' statement.

*

p.s
i forgot to add u dont need to map ur car to install a 3 bar map sensor for the ecu to read it correcty.

Brilliant. Utterly brilliant.

Please, please explain this to me. I beg of you, on my knees, make me understand how this works with a 0-5v 2 bar to 3 bar MAP sensor.

 

[ratmangta]

lol street racers bun fight

 

[Ren21Turbo]

dave clearly u have no clue or even tryed building one or know that there no overlap on the 12v cam, the valves are the same as the 8v turbo head same size!, plus where in any of my posts have i said that its a bolt on and play get facts right and understand what you are saying before coming to your conclusion, about cat cams its 220inc vat for there off the shelf item or for a custom item it depends on what you want done. if and when u LEARN how a map sensor works and HOW the Voltage difference works then you will understand why. if u do not understand or do not know what you are talking about fully then read, listen and learn what has/is been said by people who know, been there and can say what they have learnt from experience

p.s
have you even tryed getting ur car mapped/setup i think you will find far cheaper then any standalone unit plus finding someone/company that supports that unit. where as the renix/benix ecu can be setup by most people if they look as its std 64k eprom

 

[Red21]

:boxing: :applouse:

 

[Ren21Turbo]

:boxing: :applouse:

ah he starting to bore me anyway i would like this to get back on topic anyway

 

[MakeEverything]

Lol, I have to say its nice that it's not me for a change!!!

I think Dave has a point with the MAP sensor though. Megasquirt requires a change of code to install a 3bar sensor, to read the increased pressure by changing the scale Logic (voltage reference), and I would think adaptronic is the same. What would make the RENIX unit different?

Also, comparing two cars on boost pressure and where the IC is mounted is a little weak, as these are not the only performance factors in the cars. Fuel, ignition, compression, valve timing, lift and duration, gear ratios, wheel sizes etc etc....

Not wanting to get in on the argument, just my input to the topic.

 

[Ren21Turbo]

megasquirt needs the change so you can open the finer readings in the table adaptronic i dont know ihavnt used that renix does not need to be change for the map sensor well for a cossie 3 bar map sensor anyway because it is already there for you it isnt as locked down compaired to say like a mid 90's ecu which is like a sealed circle lol

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

Also, comparing two cars on boost pressure and where the IC is mounted is a little weak, as these are not the only performance factors in the cars. Fuel, ignition, compression, valve timing, lift and duration, gear ratios, wheel sizes etc etc....

i know that you saying i just couldnt be arse to go into detail about UAD

but thanks anyway for ur input

 

[MakeEverything]

megasquirt needs the change so you can open the finer readings in the table adaptronic i dont know ihavnt used that renix does not need to be change for the map sensor well for a cossie 3 bar map sensor anyway because it is already there for you it isnt as locked down compaired to say like a mid 90's ecu which is like a sealed circle lol

---------- Post added at 10:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:03 PM ----------

Also, comparing two cars on boost pressure and where the IC is mounted is a little weak, as these are not the only performance factors in the cars. Fuel, ignition, compression, valve timing, lift and duration, gear ratios, wheel sizes etc etc....

i know that you saying i just couldnt be arse to go into detail about UAD

but thanks anyway for ur input

Wh don't you put UADs spec on the engine specs thread to shut us up then?

 

[Andyquadra]

dave clearly u have no clue or even tryed building one or know that there no overlap on the 12v cam, the valves are the same as the 8v turbo head same size!, plus where in any of my posts have i said that its a bolt on and play get facts right and understand what you are saying before coming to your conclusion, about cat cams its 220inc vat for there off the shelf item or for a custom item it depends on what you want done. if and when u LEARN how a map sensor works and HOW the Voltage difference works then you will understand why. if u do not understand or do not know what you are talking about fully then read, listen and learn what has/is been said by people who know, been there and can say what they have learnt from experience

So 21T 8V exhaust valves are a straight fit? Very interesting! Also I think the cat cam's are about 220 for their off the self regrind and 400+ plus vat for their billet cams, and to dial in a n/a cam I'd guess you'd need a vernier pulley, which you can get from cat cams aswell for about 120, but it won't fit without modification.
Anyway I'm going to sit back now and have a cup of tea:encouragement:

 

[Ren21Turbo]

So 21T 8V exhaust valves are a straight fit? Very interesting! Also I think the cat cam's are about 220 for their off the self regrind and 400+ plus vat for their billet cams, and to dial in a n/a cam I'd guess you'd need a vernier pulley, which you can get from cat cams aswell for about 120, but it won't fit without modification.
Anyway I'm going to sit back now and have a cup of tea:encouragement:

hi andy

we use two std cam pulleys and modifly them by cuting the center out of one and milling the other, and bolt them together, lucky enough i know a good machine shop that can do that sort of stuff for us for free, (known them since i was a kid) havn't brought a cat cam pulley yet because of this as we mod the std item

 

[MakeEverything]

hi andy

we use two std cam pulleys and modifly them by cuting the center out of one and milling the other, and bolt them together, lucky enough i know a good machine shop that can do that sort of stuff for us for free, (known them since i was a kid) havn't brought a cat cam pulley yet because of this as we mod the std item

That's what I was going to do, though I was going to make a new centre from ali plate.

 

[DaveL485]

dave clearly u have no clue or even tryed building one or know that there no overlap on the 12v cam,

Oh, no, of course I haven't. Except...I have.

the valves are the same as the 8v turbo head same size!,

You clearly have no idea what you're talking about chap. I even quoted the TXi valve sizes for you at 36.4x7x111.8, 30.4x7x111.9 and 40.1x7x112. The Turbo ones are 43.9x8x112 and 37x8x111.3. I'd be wholly impressed if you could get an 8mm Turbo stem in a 7mm TXi valve guide.

plus where in any of my posts have i said that its a bolt on and play

Here:

so you dont know then that the 12v exhaust valves are sodaium filled valves as std or that if u you use 2.2td twin valves springs that they will take anything anyone car throw at them (besides cutting them dow!)that the N/A cam works fine on a the turbo setup if you know how to dail them in.......
......so yeah ill keep using a very good system that works fine that really isnt that limited if understand how renault used the item (for the record i dont know about if phase 2/3 systems are the same to map as i have not tryed yet or needed to yet)

get facts right and understand what you are saying before coming to your conclusion,

I have. Absolutely, unequivocally right.

about cat cams its 220inc vat for there off the shelf item or for a custom item it depends on what you want done.

?450 for the 'proper' billet item. They only list one Turbo profile, 5501610, which is a billet number unless I have been quoted incorrectly of course. The rest are all NA profiles.

if and when u LEARN how a map sensor works and HOW the Voltage difference works then you will understand why. if u do not understand or do not know what you are talking about fully then read, listen and learn what has/is been said by people who know, been there and can say what they have learnt from experience

PMSL! WHAT planet are you from? I'm actually ready to call Troll.

MAP Sensor 101. For noobs. (In case you missed that, I mean you).

The readings from a 1bar, 2bar and 3bar map sensor are compared in the following graph. I drew it especially for you. Bar references are absolute for this diagram.



Pressure appears on the x-axis and output voltage is shown on the y-axis. All sensors produce a 0-5v output. The 1bar sensor reaches its full scale reading of 5v at 1 bar (0Psi/Atmospheric). At 1 bar, the 2-bar sensor is at 1/2 of full scale and produces a 2.5v output. With the 2-bar map sensor, 2 bar (14.7Psi) is required to reach the full scale output of 5v. Continuing the trend, the 3bar sensor is putting out around 3v at 2bar (14.7Psi) and requires 3 bar (29.4Psi) to output 5v.

So, if you plug a 3 bar MAP sensor in to an ECU geared for a 2 bar MAP sensor, at 2 bar (14.7Psi boost) the sensor outputs 3 volts. Because your ECU thinks that its talking to a 2 bar sensor, it takes that 3 volts and interprets it as (approximately) 1.2 bar (~3Psi).
To compensate this you must remap the ECU's understanding of the MAP sensor voltage, or, in other words, change the fuelling and timing maps to give the suitable fuel and ignition settings for the MAP sensor output voltage which you have altered by a third.

Tell me i'm wrong. Anybody.

p.s
have you even tryed getting ur car mapped/setup i think you will find far cheaper then any standalone unit plus finding someone/company that supports that unit. where as the renix/benix ecu can be setup by most people if they look as its std 64k eprom

Agreed. Far cheaper as a one off. However, with the investment of Standalone, I can map, remap and re-remap over and again myself with no special kit. I have an excellent user interface that is easy to understand. I have dual switchable maps, auto-fuelling control, target AFR and rapid learning, I can recalibrate new sensors to the unit so I can use any sensors I like in seconds, I have fuel and ignition maps as far up as i'll ever need, I can run sequential injection, 8 injectors, it controls my boost, idle, fans, I have flat shifting, launch control, NoS control, Water inj control, I can switch from coils to dizzy and back again, I can use high or low impedance injectors, I can set alarms and alerts for when the engine is out of trim in any way....every time I make a change to the vernier, Turbo, injectors, charge cooling, exhaust system I DON'T have to go back and pay to get it mapped again.

And, sat in the car with the laptop showing the gauges and 3D fuelling grids with the Target X tracking the engine up and down......well.....its cool as ****.