5 GT Turbo EFI - GT Turbo

[Mark Davis]

I'm sending to CTM Monday @Adey for them to take a look. Just hope it can be salvaged.

Hard to say what has happened, no experience here so guessing. Valve fucks up, floats around, causing damage, causes det = the end. Or already detting and this is a separate issue ? Dunno.

 

[Adey]

hard to pin point the route cause, could be the afrs, but then it could be a part failure, to me it looks like there is evidence of both, you would of heard that amount of det though if it was just that. I like to strip my own bits before sending stuff back to try and pinpoint the best i can the route cause of the issue, i dont think is as clear cut as some have made it out to be especially after seeing the pic of the head. Either way its onwards and upwards, pushing the limits like you are you will always find faults or failures

 

[Mark Davis]

@Adey - Thanks for the advice dude, thing is I wouldn't know where to start pulling it all apart. Yeah it's certainly interesting to see this is on number 3 where the issues were, definitely heard a change in tappy top end noises which explains this, then smoking and spark plug issues. Then pulled head off to find the real damage.

 

[Adey]

Get steve round to get his hands dirty, all you would need would be a valve spring compression tool, then methodically take it to bits. It looks like the bulk of it is salvageable, new guides in there, you would also need the valves checking for trueness to make sure they arnt slightly bent. Is the one with the shiney mark that dave pointed out the one with the damaged guide?

 

[Mark Davis]

Yep, just checked. The very same one.

 

[Adey]

id now be leaning towards something like,

Valve guide snapped, held valve in open position, smashed into piston and bent (witnessed by valve shape mark in the head), got hammered back up into the head and made a mess of everything.....possibly.

This is just speculation though and not a conclusive look at it, just an idea based on a few pics

 

[Fordy]

Valve guides fucked your engine.

Now I had same sort of issue with CTM but I'm not into the whole bad mouthing thing.

My exhaust valves guides had been reemed too tight and stuck cylinder 1 exhaust valve open and hit my piston.

I highly suggest you get it professionally looked by a 3rd party and contest with CTM for poor workmanship or failure of parts they supplied.

A guy called Phil on Rtoc had a valve guide problem like yours but not sure who did them

 

[Red21]

EEK nasty,
Unfortunately it not just the head and pistons that need replacing, but everything from oil pump to small ends, camshaft etc need checking as a smashing like that can over stress & score other parts due to bits .
I would also check the exhaust manifold for bits, turbo blades for damage.
Question, Are the guides installed a different material from standard?

 

[Fordy]

Guides these days are hammered in via air hammer with special inserts and then calibrated ball bearings are air hammered through the guide to get the internal clearance
Have a Google it looks pretty dumb and yeehaw to me tbf

Think it's mostly a time saving/cost exercise places have taken on

 

[Mark Davis]

EEK nasty,
Unfortunately it not just the head and pistons that need replacing, but everything from oil pump to small ends, camshaft etc need checking as a smashing like that can over stress & score other parts due to bits .
I would also check the exhaust manifold for bits, turbo blades for damage.
Question, Are the guides installed a different material from standard?

Was always planning on a full rebuild so although not ideal of course camshaft, pump, bearings etc etc will be all renewed. Just not sure how to handle CTM now to be honest. Paid £1100 for all the headwork and surprised and shocked that has happened, particularly within a week of use.

 

[Brigsy]

The dropped valve guide will have been your knocking issue

 

[Mark Davis]

The dropped valve guide will have been your knocking issue

Definitely Jon, was so obvious on the day we were out timing too. Knew straight away it wasn't your typical C1J sound.

 

[Mark Davis]

So change of plan. Instead of forged internals I'm going to stay OE as lost the will to keep pushing. Will have it set up nice and safe around 220/230 mark and just enjoy.

Makes much more sense using cash on my new purchase next year, realistically I'm not going to push past 250 without fighting push rods and gearboxes and god knows what else.

 

[Adey]

Good choice

 

[DaveL485]

And so the mystery unravels. I did think it was too much damage for det considering.

Id not strip the head and get it to CTM. If you think they might try and wriggle out of it then get a 3rd party to look at it. Thats a cut and shut for me, the head has started falling apart and took the rest of the engine with it. I'd deliver the head in person and have a conversation with the head honcho face to face.

I think we can say for sure that the guide dropping was the primary issue, your problems seemed to escalate from the ticking noise. Was the bent pushrod the same cylinder? Related, maybe. Probably. If the valve was seizing in the guide for example.

Not great news mate its not like you havent spent the money and tried to cheap out, fingers crossed you get the after-service that sort of spend demands.

 

[Adey]

I wouldnt rule out more damage in the head either thats not been seen (more broken components). would be hard for the one guide/fragments to make it into every cylinder in my opinion. Hopefully as a few have said they will sort you out, unfortunately many companies will try and place the blame elsewhere.

 

[Mark Davis]

Yeah I'll have a chat with Charlie tomorrow and explain what I've found and sound him out. Hopefully he will be reasonable but sadly the world doesn't always work like that when money is involved as we all know.

@Adey - do you know of anyone local if I went down the route of someone inspecting it for me? I'm inclined to send it back as is and let them see it as it stands rather than sending it back in bits as they might claim something has gone wrong by other people dismantling.

The engine is out now at least.

 

[Mark Davis]

People - do you think these will be ok ?

RENAULT 5 GT TURBO NEW ENGINE PISTON AND LINER SET COMPLETE INC RINGS 76.00MM | eBay

 

[Adey]

ill ask around and see if i can find someone who would take the work on if you like? id see how the land lies with CTM on monday though. Might be worth inspecting the block before buying any bits too, if a spring has disappeared into the engine it could of caused damage to the cam journals and that might render the block useless.

 

[Mark Davis]

Yeah let me know if you know of anyone local re head. Yeah will ask Mark to check everything possible with block etc.