Alpine 1968 Renault R8

[Adey]

They were all good, basic calibration is set for a coil pack and dwell settings were low.

No issues so far with the new/second hand ecu, just need to test drive it and get some miles in. Mapping is a week today all being well.

 

[Adey]

The replacement ecu is on and we are running very well. As its running a base map it didn't take too long to set it up again. Managed to get out and about for some testing and all is good so far after completing about 10 miles. Need to get some more done this week before mapping on the 28th

 

[Adey]

 

[Leigh5t]

Impressive work! Looking forward to seeing how you get on next week

 

[Adey]

 

[Brigsy]

Great result, i bet drivability is loads better with optimal ignition timing.

 

[Adey]

Great result, i bet drivability is loads better with optimal ignition timing.

World's apart from the dizzy. I wouldn't of noticed it as much if I had opted to go just 2d but adding the map sensor for load was worth it. As soon as you brush the pedal it's reacting rather than being a little dead and lazy.

 

[Adey]

So a little wrap up of the day. Top line power mapping resulted in pretty much the same peak power it already had (high 60s low 70s), all the bottom and midrange stuff was where we gained everything and not just on full throttle.

Driveability is hugely improved and the engine itself seems quieter and less stressed, even though its doing more as such. As soon as you touch the throttle, even lightly, its very willing to get up go vs the old dizzy setup.

I'm calling it a win, peak power wasn't my main concern, though its always nice to have more, but I'm sure we can address that in the future..... for now, ill enjoy it

Thanks for reading/watching

 

[Steve Swan]

What is the full power Ignition setting or to put it another way Maximum advance??

 

[Leigh5t]

I’d call that a win! Forget about that top figure. Ultimately, it’s how it feels to drive, hey. If you found it actually gained 5 hp up top, would you be able to tell, over the improvement you already have?
Enjoy the smiles it’s going to give you, you’ve earned it

Roll on summer

 

[Adey]

I’d call that a win! Forget about that top figure. Ultimately, it’s how it feels to drive, hey. If you found it actually gained 5 hp up top, would you be able to tell, over the improvement you already have?
Enjoy the smiles it’s going to give you, you’ve earned it

Roll on summer

Maybe maybe not the biggest jump was the initial engine swap. Id hope a cam would make a noticeable jump though.....

Indeed smiles for miles

 

[Adey]

What is the full power Ignition setting or to put it another way Maximum advance??

Ill let you know next time I plug the laptop in should be later today.

On the dyno the engine was given as much as it would take before it stopped changing the output, good thing about having it strapped down is you can see it real time without having to test drive it as such. The fact that peak didn't change would suggest we had got the same with the dizzy, but at the sacrifice of optimisation else where.

 

[Steve Swan]

Remember it's an Atmo, putting a cam in it will make it worse if you don't get the Compression Ratio optimised , that's why I was asking about the max timing figure, it's always a good indicator of how close you are, or not as the case may be. Just changing the cam has the valves open longer which reduces the cylinder pressure and therefor power.

 

[Adey]

The cam wouldn't be just to hold the valves open longer though, it would be to do it at different timings too. That's where some of the gains would be, moving the same power (torque) further up the revs makes power (HP).

Compression could also be bumped relatively easily to a point with a little/big skim. Starts getting us into the realms of dynamic and static compression though when mixing in cams. I could just force feed it a little extra air......... would solve a few issue

Ill enjoy it as is a for a while, but the mind does wander constantly though

 

[Adey]

@Steve Swan

bottom line is where you can see the ignition values vs 100% map load and revs so in the high 20s/nearly 30 for ignition advance. Guy did think it would want more but it made no difference to the output so didn't leave it there for the sake of it

 

[BobG]

Great work Adey. Now on to Phase 2, Alpine/Gordini crossflow head, dual sidedraft Webers, hotted cam. This gives 10 more HP in a screaming race motor. Then, dare I say, an R5GTT motor with 50% more torque and much quieter. Here's a graph from Internet data comparing an R8 Gordini 1300 to an R5GTT. Need I say more?

 

[Steve Swan]

At 36 deg you have plenty of scope for improvement. You know you've got a hot motor on your hands when you're at 28 deg max at full power as everything is optimised.
On Liz's original 1289 (R12ts bottom) I used an R10 1300 head, which had the same valve sizes as the 12 head, but looked more correct as it did not have the alternator mounts cast into it. However it was only an 8:1 head and not a 9.5:1 like the 12 ts. I took 3mm off the head to get some sensible compression , It was around 90 bhp and revved clean to 7k. It was extensively reworked, fully ported single 40 decent exhaust.
I can predict the future a bit if you want. If you get the valves 3 angled and blended and knock the barnacles off the ports, be warned if you are not experienced at this leave the valve seat throats alone as it's easy to make the head flow worse by opening it up. The area around the valve seat is critical to flow. Get the compression up and get a cam through Salv and you will be in 90 bhp territory, sort out the inlet and carb will see you at or around 100 bhp, or go Crossflow and open your account at 130 bhp, or do none of the above and find some usable GTT manifolds, turbo and carb and go that way, saves spending wads on ever diminishing returns. Just be careful with the clutch ..................

 

[Steve Swan]

Sorry Adey I read the graph wrong, so the final timing was set at 29 as advancing it was not making any difference to output??? If it won't make any more power or detonate then the cam is just limiting it full stop Like a Governor on a diesel.
If you can, do a compression test and see what it has, be good to get a base line figure. I would guess it to be in the 160-175 psi region.

 

[Adey]

That is correct. 29 degrees is the max advance then engine took at 6500 rpm when flat out (really its dead in the water well before then). anymore ignition was making no difference to the output on the dyno. I will comp test it soon

soooo tempted to turbo it but I do like the N/A engine in there, suits the car, its not too shabby vs daily traffic.

 

[sparkie]

With a 288 deg cam i had the compression up at around 11.5:1, with a 1397cc N/A bottom end with a 1.1 head using the N/A gasket. When I swapped to a gtt headgasket I'm sure it dropped compression to 10.x:1.