Alpine 1968 Renault R8

[Adey]

 

[Adey]

 

[Steve Swan]

Fit a turbo and re-map it......

 

[Adey]

Fit a turbo and re-map it......

I like the cut of your jib

 

[Mattjoss5]

Potentially, though I've done this to add reliability primarily. After having a coil die on me, the "wrong" dizzy fitted as it was the one off my 1108cc and then the potential fuel pump failure I decided to replace it all with more modern items. Watch it all fail dramatically

With the ecu in place I should be able to set the optimum ignition timing at every point in the rev range and being "3D" and having a map sensor equally for all load points too. I should gain power and driveability in most places but peak numbers will likely be close or unchanged from what it already has. So to answer that question.... yes and no lol.

I think the manifold was a one off from @BobG, not sure if he made it himself or was purchased elsewhere?

I was very tempted to slap a cam in too, maybe in the future with a head skim to bump compression slightly. Its never ending isn't it.....

Hello Adey , According to one of the so called experts the 5 auto engine like you used is supposed to have a slightly hotter / better cam profile to a manual engine car .

 

[sparkie]

Hello Adey , According to one of the so called experts the 5 auto engine like you used is supposed to have a slightly hotter / better cam profile to a manual engine car .

I also heard this rumour back in the day.

 

[Adey]

kind of good to know, will see where we get too, I'm sure it'll be enough for all of 5 min before im changing something else

Dyno booked for the 28th

 

[Adey]

So this has not gone to plan.... Few things to go through.

I had an mis sync issue that seemingly got worse the longer the car ran. Seemed to run perfectly when stone cold. I've been pretty particular with the routing of wiring to minimise interference to the ECU. Anyway, replaced the crank sensor to see if that was the issue. No change. Started diving a little deeper, decided to remove the rad fan that was in the same vicinity (that and I was giving myself a headache about temperatures and direction of airflow, @Steve Swan I should have just listened to you in the first place, mechanical fan back on) still no change. Remade the earthing points and added extra to make sure all was grounded nicely. Still no change...

Had been calling my mapper whilst trying to get it diagnosed and correct before I take it to him. Didn't want to waste his time or my money so he was throwing some ideas about.

Started looking deeper using the software for the ecu, noticed that it was seeing a signal of some sort constantly. There are filter settings to cut these out and aren't usually a problem unless they are strong enough for the ecu to think its seen a trigger tooth, (think of it like background noise). There's software based things you can change but switching the filters on and off didn't make a difference to the signal or running.

Anyway, kept digging until the car ran on 2 cylinders. That's weird... followed by a hiss and a bang. Took a look around everything and found the coil pack to have exploded!!!!! My first thoughts were that it was a dodgy coil pack.

Made a call back to the mapper and he throws some more ideas around. Generally coil packs over heat if they are been driven too hard or for too long or a mix of both. Asks me to triple check the loom which I have, and found no faults that I can see. Noted that there was continuity with the ecu powered back through one of the coil trigger wires.... This would suggest that the driver is stuck on for one half of the coil pack.

Anyway pull the ecu and do the same on the bench, sure enough the ecu is showing continuity to ground through one of the coil drivers.

Seemingly I have a dead brand new ECU. The issue with the misfire creeping in as the coil heated up.

Anyway a ticket has been raised with the supplier, we will see what they say/can do when business opens as of Monday.

 

[Wheelers Workshop]

Adey,
My heart goes out to you, what a F@74er of a problem to be chasing in this cold weather as well. I hope that you at least get a new replacement ECU from the supplier FOC.
Regarding cooling, Is your electric rad fan "blowing through" the Rad into the engine bay and not sucking?
Cheers
Dave

 

[Adey]

Indeed, it's been pretty cold and wet here. My makeshift gazebo worked wonders though



With regards to the fan m, I had it pushing air through to the engine, same as the oem one. My concerns came from not having an under tray on one side due to the tubular manifold and then me thinking the air would be stalling in the bay because of it. Where as the fixed fan probably over comes that?

 

[Mattjoss5]

Indeed, it's been pretty cold and wet here. My makeshift gazebo worked wonders though

View attachment 222537View attachment 222538

With regards to the fan m, I had it pushing air through to the engine, same as the oem one. My concerns came from not having an under tray on one side due to the tubular manifold and then me thinking the air would be stalling in the bay because of it. Where as the fixed fan probably over comes that?

| put a electric fan on mine when i first built it pushing through from the back panel and worked ok but not in the hotter weather so put the pully driven fan back on and never had a issue . The electric occasionally cuts in when moving in slow traffic but not for long and i dont have any undertrays .

 

[Steve Swan]

So this has not gone to plan.... Few things to go through.

I had an mis sync issue that seemingly got worse the longer the car ran. Seemed to run perfectly when stone cold. I've been pretty particular with the routing of wiring to minimise interference to the ECU. Anyway, replaced the crank sensor to see if that was the issue. No change. Started diving a little deeper, decided to remove the rad fan that was in the same vicinity (that and I was giving myself a headache about temperatures and direction of airflow, @Steve Swan I should have just listened to you in the first place, mechanical fan back on) still no change. Remade the earthing points and added extra to make sure all was grounded nicely. Still no change...

Had been calling my mapper whilst trying to get it diagnosed and correct before I take it to him. Didn't want to waste his time or my money so he was throwing some ideas about.

Started looking deeper using the software for the ecu, noticed that it was seeing a signal of some sort constantly. There are filter settings to cut these out and aren't usually a problem unless they are strong enough for the ecu to think its seen a trigger tooth, (think of it like background noise). There's software based things you can change but switching the filters on and off didn't make a difference to the signal or running.

Anyway, kept digging until the car ran on 2 cylinders. That's weird... followed by a hiss and a bang. Took a look around everything and found the coil pack to have exploded!!!!! My first thoughts were that it was a dodgy coil pack.

Made a call back to the mapper and he throws some more ideas around. Generally coil packs over heat if they are been driven too hard or for too long or a mix of both. Asks me to triple check the loom which I have, and found no faults that I can see. Noted that there was continuity with the ecu powered back through one of the coil trigger wires.... This would suggest that the driver is stuck on for one half of the coil pack.

Anyway pull the ecu and do the same on the bench, sure enough the ecu is showing continuity to ground through one of the coil drivers.

Seemingly I have a dead brand new ECU. The issue with the misfire creeping in as the coil heated up.

Anyway a ticket has been raised with the supplier, we will see what they say/can do when business opens as of Monday.

View attachment 222532

I've had that fault twice with Lumenition, once on liz's car and once on the Dauph. Too much coil on time, heats up and starts missing. Reassuring to know you can get the same result by having the points shut....

 

[Wheelers Workshop]

Indeed, it's been pretty cold and wet here. My makeshift gazebo worked wonders though

View attachment 222537View attachment 222538

With regards to the fan m, I had it pushing air through to the engine, same as the oem one. My concerns came from not having an under tray on one side due to the tubular manifold and then me thinking the air would be stalling in the bay because of it. Where as the fixed fan probably over comes that?

Hi Adey,
The factory std cooling system and mechanical fan set up if in tip top condition works very well, i.e. idling in traffic and or blasting down a motorway for hours in high summer temperatures, but the problem is it generates is a considerable residual heat builds up in the engine bay, which rises even more after shutting down the motor also its sapping approx 5bhp of engine power to drive the fan.

I had obtained my factory 1135 std 1300G car in 2005 and we decided to have it trailered to France for the big Gordini Meeting weekend held at the July Mas Du Clos circuit and I fully expected it to Boil over when I gave it its head revs wise on the circuit , but it just stayed the same normal temperature much to my surprise after driving the circuit laps at speed in late 30s hot ambient temperatures, Steve Swan was also there and it was so hot his 8Gordini tyres compound were showing heat distress.

Years later I ran my 8G with its 165bhp 1700 Sacco unit without the side trays but with the same std rear Rad set up for a few years and the water temperature was always still showing "normal" when I say normal its what the water gauge temp was indicating when the standard 1255cc Gordini unit was in place.
The heat issues under bonnet did however did once cause my Facet Cube "sucker" pump mounted on the o/s inner wing to suffer from vapour lock [ we think the modern fuels which seem to have a lower boiling point did't help either] effectively causing a few annoying break downs, while driving through northern France during a very hot August Bank Holiday weekend , I was in convoy with 2 other R8Gs being trailered to Etretat in Normandy from Dieppe for the hillclimb weekend, which made for slow progress through little towns and traffic lights etc. with lots of static engine idling resulting in the little pump rattling like hell when trying to pump vapour.

I later cured my vapourisation issues by finally going to a front radiator set up with 2x R16 heater fans which all my previous rear engine cars had from the 1970s onward and also I located the now new bIgger "pusher" Facet silver top pump behind the headlights so its always cool, and feeding the big front tank via a 6mm continuous Kunifer fuel line which was routed under the car in the floor tunnel [no undertrays and its always in the cool air flow] and it emerges into the engine room vertically just behind the rear right vertical rad panel fixing flange, a short length of rubber fuel line then runs along the top of wheel arch to the 2 Weber 45DCOE s.
Fuel vapourisation issues were now a thing of the past and cured, and the now redundant engine lid louvres let convected heat out of the engine bay continuously [ especially when say stop/starting the hot engine when slowly queing to reach the startline at Hillclimbs.]

For an experiment, I had the original ageing rear R8G radiator chemically cleaned internally by Messrs Serke who also re-cored a spare R10 Rad by fitting a new high efficiency core [ now with turbulators in the tubes], a back to back test of both, resulted in the same recorded gauge temperature! The thermostat throughout has been an 86deg one and the water pump the " Gross Debit" high flow version.

Finally, while ascending Prescott hillclimb, I had an issue at the uphill Hairpin which allowed the steel fan to contact the rad shroud resulting in slightly bent fan blade tips, after this it did run hotter [about a quarter of the gauge hotter] but got me home without any issues.
So Adey can I suggest that you commission the motor's new EFI management but with the std steel fan system , get it running ok and then experiment with various Fan types/sizes /locations later?
Cheers
Dave

 

[andybond]

Seemingly I have a dead brand new ECU.

Alright Mark. Calm down.

 

[Adey]

 

[Steve Swan]

Mas-Du-Clos in 2005 was one of those things you'll always remember. Check the car over and go out, fantastic circuit good mix of fast and slow corners, have a great time, then the car goes a bit weird and gets drifty on the high speed 4th gear corners, come in coz you think you've melted your rears, but no, nothing to note, some heavy graining, but no bits missing. Check tyre pressures, air temp is in the mid 30's track temp is burning to touch. Fronts up from 24psi to 25/6 no big deal so reset. Rears up from normal 28 psi to 42 psi. Drop back to 28 and go back out with the car now Bolted to the tarmac. Awesome......

 

[Adey]

SOoooooo i think we are on to a winner.

"ME" haven't gotten back to me regarding my ECU as of yet. So last night I briefly looked for another unit on FB market place and Ebay.... found a second hand unit, along with an mx5 1.8 inlet manifold and a set of jetted bike carbs for an for a chunk less than a new nodiz. Very local to me also! I have little to no patience when trying to sort an issue where there's the possibility that I've caused it.

First thing I did was check the ecu pin outs to see if it had the same fault I found on the original ecu.... nope so all good to carry on with testing. Went through things one by one, adjusted an earth strap and slapped on a new coil....

It only bloody started and ran straight away!

plan is to run it up fully tomorrow but I very much think the driver for one side of the coil had failed in an on or semi on position on the original ECU (that is how the pin out results were looking) and that killed everything.

Fingers crossed we are good, I'm expecting ME to somehow say I've created or caused the issue but we will see. Really I now have no need for the original ECU after buying a working item elsewhere.

 

[Wheelers Workshop]

Great News Adey ,
Its about time it all started to go your way with this conversion and its getting to be less Baltic out there under the tarp as well!
W

 

[andybond]

Concrete proof of a DOA device

 

[Brigsy]

Does sound like dead ecu.

Check coil settings are right too if they can be changed. Amplified vs not and dwell settings