Alpine 1968 Renault R8

[Steve Swan]

A company called PIX do blue Kevlar belts in the correct L profile for R8's, they are nothing to Look at, but are practically indestructable, hot motors and below par belts with mechanical fans are a recipe for problems, another plus on the blue belts is no dust. and they're cheap. Gettable from any bearing powertrain suppliers.

 

[Adey]

Made a start on some steering upgrades/modernisation. Became an absolute ball ache of a job. Originally I planned to replace the inner and outer track rod ends in situ, access was poor so I thought id quickly whip the whole rack out. Access was even worse hampered but rusty nuts and bolts with split pins in that I could no longer see.... anyway, about 5 hours later the rack is out, the new more modern inner and outer track rods are fitted and the old grease removed with fresh slapped in plus I made a new gasket All being well ill get it back in over the next few days. I've never taken so long removing 4 bolts!

 

[Steve Swan]

Look on the bright side, doing a quick rack conversion will be a Skoosh now.............

 

[Adey]

Look on the bright side, doing a quick rack conversion will be a Skoosh now.............

Indeed, whole thing now back in, on my back in about 20 min think I could get it out even quicker now. Deploying the feral 7 year old to assist from the drivers seat was a huge help too

Quick rack could be on the cards next year, along with brakes, suspension, rust fix. It never ends..... Already looking at them wider wings that you fitted to the turbo too! My bank balance cant keep up with my ideas and/or skills

 

[Steve Swan]

My bank balance cant keep up with my ideas and/or skills

A Disease with no cure.....

 

[Wheelers Workshop]

Adey,
You will praise the day that you fitted these modern adjustable track rods and track rod ends, it so easy now to make the "live"tracking adjustments insitu or on the ramp in the tyre shop. The main thing is that you have now dialled out the factory metallastic inner bushes which give alarming amounts of toe out under heavy braking etc.
My previous R8 had a little access hatch and cover plate that I formed in the boot floor above the rack connection to the column, so to afford access to the Paulstra flector disc and its bolts with split pinned castellated nuts, these are a throw back to the Dauphine and 4CV,however the later R8 production cars had nyloc nuts. There is an alternative way to get access under the car which requires for the steering wheel to be removed, together with the little spring for the indicators return, then the 2 rack mounting bolts on the x member you then push the column downwards into the scuttle floor for a few inches and getting at the 2 fixing bolts is then a lot easier. 2 x short 13mm open ended spanners also help.
I hope that Santa brings some more goodies for the car!
Ho Ho Ho.
Dave

 

[Wheelers Workshop]

Adey,
I just zoomed into your rack in the vice photo , the rubber flector has a structural crack across it , so I would get it changed before driving the car again , they are cheap and common to all the 60s production models hence plentiful.
Cheers
Dave

 

[Adey]

Thanks for the heads up Dave. I did flex it and it was in the surface rather than all the way through, like its gone hard with age. I've refitted already to keep the car mobile and have one on order I'm sure I could get it all back out and in in a light afternoon

After looking at the old inner bushes I was shocked, I could move the inner part easily with my fingers, I'm very much looking forward to the improved ride and adjustability.

What's everyone's suggestions for a road car like mines front toe? straight ahead and parallel or..?

 

[Steve Swan]

Start Parallel. Toe in will blunt off initial turn in. Toe out will do the opposite if your a masochist. The soft rear and all the camber will make it feel a bit weird at speed anyway. You'll likely not notice a lot of difference

 

[Adey]

Start Parallel. Toe in will blunt off initial turn in. Toe out will do the opposite if your a masochist. The soft rear and all the camber will make it feel a bit weird at speed anyway. You'll likely not notice a lot of difference

I've always set my cars with toe out for quick turn in, but, that said they have nearly always been FWD cars with rear that's lively but follows nicely (unless provoked). Speed..... what's that, I have all my fun at sub 70 in this

 

[Adey]

Video update, click play and walk away, it "racks" up views for me

Thanks in advance

 

[Wheelers Workshop]

I've always set my cars with toe out for quick turn in, but, that said they have nearly always been FWD cars with rear that's lively but follows nicely (unless provoked). Speed..... what's that, I have all my fun at sub 70 in this

Hi Adey,
Well the next issue to consider is that your wishbones are also mounted in probably old rubber metallastic bushes which like the old steering bushes move around under a braking load and are probably original to the car.
We motorsport types don't care much about noise or ride, so we fit either home made sold bushes with an oil lite inner bush [4] and press them into the lower wishbones eccentrically and concentrically into the upper wishbones The French however market an expensive bushes kit called a Dangel kit [excuse the spelling] these are lower steel outers with an eccentric bronze inners and can be rotated with a peg spanner to move the lower wishbones up to 6mm each outboard so giving negative camber. This really sharpens the steering response at the expense of noise on rough tarmac roads. As usual if you fix one issue another wants attention, so you need to either reinforce by adding steel plates your top and bottom wishbones a la R8G ones or find some French weld on kits . Next after the tightened up rack track rods and the above well located wishbones, the need the 2 rack mountings to the x member to be reinforced again as the R8G tubular brace which is fitted between the x member towers, and also bolts to the 2 rack fixing bolts.
Toe in can then be played with on the road to give a good turning in feel if required , by putting the steering on full lock and adjust each of the track rod after slackening the lock nuts. Use a tipex pen to mark the thread locations before adjusting, so you can always return to the original settings.
Road springs and bump stops are another permutation to consider, I run my Gordini on its bump stops, but your std rear end will be flexing all over the place as its rubber gearbox side blocks and engine mounts are allowing the engine box axle combo to move alarmingly around inside the chassis. The 1960s Coup Gordini Race series allowed this group 2 upgrade which effectively uses harder shore rated rubber in these 4 main mountings, they also allowed a solid steel girdle around the gearbox side mounts to effectively act like a Watts linkage, I use these on my Competition car.
Finally, its essential that the 2 canvass limiting straps under the axle tubes are in good condition, ideally use new wider R8G ones, with a lowered car as yours, the straps should be just in contact with the tubes to prevent too much tuck under which raises the C of G and this usually ends in a rotational event.
I did make steel straps in a U shape with an adjustable M10 Bolt and nuts below the axle tubes so I could experiment with up to zero droop of the axles and then work back from there.
The above is just a taster as Steve will no doubt advise further as to how to make your car more fun to drive.
Cheers
Dave

 

[Adey]

Thanks to all of you, plenty for me to work through and play with

 

[Turbell]

Making my fillings rattle just reading above......ooooooh...me back as well.....

 

[BobG]

I use a loop of metal chain sausaged inside a bicycle inner tube. I had previously bought new straps from Mecaparts--the broke in a few weeks of driving.

 

[Adey]

I use a loop of metal chain sausaged inside a bicycle inner tube. I had previously bought new straps from Mecaparts--the broke in a few weeks of driving.

another good tip, cheers bob

 

[Adey]

Posting theses here as I've had a few people asking for part numbers

Steering Rod Assembly fits RENAULT R6 118 1.1 78 to 80 688.10 QH 7701461010
Tie / Track Rod End fits VW SANTANA 32B 1.3 LHD Only 81 to 84 Joint Firstline BORG & BECK: BTR4066
SET OF 2 BELLOW, STEERING METALCAUCHO 00263 FOR RENAULT / 2 PCS 7700656569

 

[Wheelers Workshop]

I use a loop of metal chain sausaged inside a bicycle inner tube. I had previously bought new straps from Mecaparts--the broke in a few weeks of driving.

Frans Kronje also uses steel chains on his R8 Circuit Race car, I currently use the wider Meca straps these days but with 2 added strips of 3mm steel flat bolted twice through the strap and clamping the canvass either side of the fixing bolt holes, this spreads the strain sideways away from the single fixing hole, so far they have worked well. I got the idea from my Halfords webbing exhaust hanger strap, which has 3 rivets clamping and holding the steel bit on.
The only downside with these axle straps is that there is no actual fine adjustment available., which does not help on a very low rear axle set up.
My previous steel straps were such that I could raise and lower the adjusting bolt under the axle tube by about +-7.5mm, the fun part is that it was possible to stop all negative axle tube droop articulation and when road testing it breaks traction on the slightest bump, a 30 second adjustment in increments allows easy setting up to dial this out.
Barry lines in the 1980s had his A110 hillclimb car rear springs packed with a helical rubber coil assister [for towing] then when under load he strapped it all together with steel pallet binding straps, so with his enormous rear slicks it just went around corners without any visible camber change, but when he reached the cars limit it would really let go and he usually ended up in the boonies.
Salv eventually managed to beat Barry's Loton class record in my double driven R8 1550, but the hill had been resurfaced by then, it was quite rough tarmac previously.
The following week I had a letter from Salv, containing a 5 day Diet program!
Dave

 

[BobG]

Frans Kronje also uses steel chains on his R8 Circuit Race car, I currently use the wider Meca straps these days but with 2 added strips of 3mm steel flat bolted twice through the strap and clamping the canvass either side of the fixing bolt holes, this spreads the strain sideways away from the single fixing hole, so far they have worked well. I got the idea from my Halfords webbing exhaust hanger strap, which has 3 rivets clamping and holding the steel bit on.
The only downside with these axle straps is that there is no actual fine adjustment available., which does not help on a very low rear axle set up.
My previous steel straps were such that I could raise and lower the adjusting bolt under the axle tube by about +-7.5mm, the fun part is that it was possible to stop all negative axle tube droop articulation and when road testing it breaks traction on the slightest bump, a 30 second adjustment in increments allows easy setting up to dial this out.
Barry lines in the 1980s had his A110 hillclimb car rear springs packed with a helical rubber coil assister [for towing] then when under load he strapped it all together with steel pallet binding straps, so with his enormous rear slicks it just went around corners without any visible camber change, but when he reached the cars limit it would really let go and he usually ended up in the boonies.
Salv eventually managed to beat Barry's Loton class record in my double driven R8 1550, but the hill had been resurfaced by then, it was quite rough tarmac previously.
The following week I had a letter from Salv, containing a 5 day Diet program!
Dave

I got the idea from someone on Aussiefrogs.com, probably Frans.

 

[Adey]

Popped out and adjusted the rear straps so they are close to the axles. Not had chance to trial it out in anger though.

I've also spent some time wiring in a new windscreen washer pump and switch. It looked like it had some sort added in the past. I've just given it a push button setup with a new twin spray nozzle. I think I may look to swap to a 2 speed wiper setup in the future though.