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Winter re-spec
- Thread starter taipan
- Start date
Well a little birdie tells me there may be a slight, almost inperceptible fuelling issue (hence the preference for a warts-and-all remap) resulting in some fairly spectacular flames from the tailpipes. So I guess it'll be the onlookers that'll enjoy the car more than I will I think 
lol
lolRUSSO":20eph3gj said:How much work to fit and buy the trophy coils then Jon?
Looked in to it in the past but IIRC the inlets need drilling / tapping to fit?
Quite interested as still got my spare inlets
A small back track but a bit of trophy coil info for you Russo. Scroll down to last post on the link :approve:
LINK
I’m officially back in the Vee game!! :race: 
Car is safely tucked up at Ben’s new unit awaiting a proper shake-down and mapping session to get the best out of the engine work that Scott’s done. The whole day went very smoothly and I have to say the weather was absolutely spot on; felt more like May than February. Plenty of window down time enjoying the new soundtrack – more of that later though.
Had a good couple of hours at Scott’s chewing the cud and generally catching up. Had a peek at a Turbo 1 he has on the ramps and was good to see some familiar Ph2s there as well Also got to see TRW1s monster up close and personal – I have to say the attention to detail and the execution on that car blows my mind. I cannot wait until it’s up and running. I grabbed a bit of inspiration for my next big interior mod from it but we’re getting well ahead of ourselves; only just finished this round!! So once the thanks and goodbyes were said the big moment came and I slid down into the bucket and went for first.
Immediately there was a huge difference. The lightweight flywheel means the clutch pedal is incredibly light to use now, like pushing through water as opposed to treacle. Scott had forewarned me to expect a few different clunks and squeaks with the new flywheel, so I was listening out carefully thinking it would be almost inaudible. It isn’t, it’s really quite obvious, not in a bad way I hasten to add, i.e. it’s not overbearing. The sound is incredibly strange as the gear engages; the best way to describe it is wire wool being drawn across a porcelain plate. Once the gear is engaged the sound disappears to be replaced by an almost silent hissing sound; kind of like television static but with the sound right, right down – not the ‘chatter’ I was expecting then. I can’t say I noticed the flywheel was that different once on the move (was taking it pretty easy to be honest) but moving away is very different: revs, clutch can come up much quicker than before, wire wool sound and then whoomp, you’re off without any delay or OEM feeling of synchromesh type engagement. Quite simply it is easily the best mod put on the car to date.
I’ve used a ph2 gear box before so it was business as usual – no suprises. If anything I feel I’ve lost a bit of the mechanical interaction that the ph1 box brings, but I can’t say I minded the short throw and closer ratios of the ph2. It is definitely the ‘better’ box but, for pure feel and interaction, it’s got to be the ph1 box for me.
The car is vastly better to drive with the coilovers. As you can see from the pictures the car sits much lower than before but with the dampers set to soft it rides absolutely beautifully. No banging or crashing and it feels much more planted and confidence inspiring in the bends – though admitedly there aren’t that many bends on the M4!
A sign of how good a job the BCs are doing is that there are no cabin rattles or squeaks – I mean none. It’s bizzare. The whole car just feels tense and taut as opposed to wallowey and bouncy; the BCs have eradicated the slack in the OEM rope. I’m going to have a play around with the settings and ride height so that it’s as good as it can be but coilovers – be they KWs, BCs or AN Other – are another essential mod in my opinion both for aesthetics but also to let the chassis come into it's own.
I’m coming from a Quicksilver OMG, which is a quality if ultimately flawed, bit of kit. I’ve always been a defender of the Quicksilver because if you can look past the occasional resonance it makes the most fantastic sound. I must say though that the full system that's been put on the car is on a totally different level. I was initially worried about the tailpipes of all things, as I really like the size of the OMG tailpipes. I don’t know whether the picture posted further up was taken at a funny angle, but it makes the new pipes look at bit pokey. I’m happy to say that actually in real life they’re only a smidgen smaller than the OMGs and look spot on. Anyway, enough of my aesthetic rambling. If the crappy I-phone video below is working you can kind of get a rough idea of what the car now sounds like. Although none were on show in the video the mrs assures me that fire comes out on full bore gear changes – whether this will happen once the remap sorts the fuelling I don’t know. All I know is fire and sticky back plastic don’t mix… lol
http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx143/Cannuk89/IMG_0178_zps6246b8d9.mp4
So that leaves the engine itself. I can’t really come to too many conclusions at the moment. It’s running the ph1 ECU in OEM spec, which obviously isn’t doing it any favours. There is an ever so slight hesitation at 2,500rpm, which Ben expected (something to do with the plenum spacer) and it’s over fuelling and runs quite a bit colder than normal, although this isn’t surprising considering how much more air is flowing through now. I’ll be honest, I’ve forgotten what the car felt like to drive before so I really can’t compare between then and now. All I can say is that I think the raw ingredients are all there for a bit of decent power, the trophy coils mean the spark can be turned up to 11 and the flow is as good as it can be without starting to play with the engine itself. I’ve given the car to Ben for as long as he needs it as he wants to try a few things out. The engine is clearly being held back by the ECU at the moment but it still felt strong and mechanically we’re totally sorted, which is the main thing :approve:
I would say a huge thanks to Scott at this point but he and I both realise that I’ll be coming back for more (already got the wheels in motion!) so we can leave all that malarkey until he’s finally put his spanners away and I’ve finally put my wallet away!!
This day was a long time in the coming but I can honestly say, from my brief time with the car today, it’s bloody brilliant. Really, really bloody brilliant.
Car is safely tucked up at Ben’s new unit awaiting a proper shake-down and mapping session to get the best out of the engine work that Scott’s done. The whole day went very smoothly and I have to say the weather was absolutely spot on; felt more like May than February. Plenty of window down time enjoying the new soundtrack – more of that later though.
Had a good couple of hours at Scott’s chewing the cud and generally catching up. Had a peek at a Turbo 1 he has on the ramps and was good to see some familiar Ph2s there as well
Also got to see TRW1s monster up close and personal – I have to say the attention to detail and the execution on that car blows my mind. I cannot wait until it’s up and running. I grabbed a bit of inspiration for my next big interior mod from it but we’re getting well ahead of ourselves; only just finished this round!! So once the thanks and goodbyes were said the big moment came and I slid down into the bucket and went for first.Immediately there was a huge difference. The lightweight flywheel means the clutch pedal is incredibly light to use now, like pushing through water as opposed to treacle. Scott had forewarned me to expect a few different clunks and squeaks with the new flywheel, so I was listening out carefully thinking it would be almost inaudible. It isn’t, it’s really quite obvious, not in a bad way I hasten to add, i.e. it’s not overbearing. The sound is incredibly strange as the gear engages; the best way to describe it is wire wool being drawn across a porcelain plate. Once the gear is engaged the sound disappears to be replaced by an almost silent hissing sound; kind of like television static but with the sound right, right down – not the ‘chatter’ I was expecting then. I can’t say I noticed the flywheel was that different once on the move (was taking it pretty easy to be honest) but moving away is very different: revs, clutch can come up much quicker than before, wire wool sound and then whoomp, you’re off without any delay or OEM feeling of synchromesh type engagement. Quite simply it is easily the best mod put on the car to date.
I’ve used a ph2 gear box before so it was business as usual – no suprises. If anything I feel I’ve lost a bit of the mechanical interaction that the ph1 box brings, but I can’t say I minded the short throw and closer ratios of the ph2. It is definitely the ‘better’ box but, for pure feel and interaction, it’s got to be the ph1 box for me.
The car is vastly better to drive with the coilovers. As you can see from the pictures the car sits much lower than before but with the dampers set to soft it rides absolutely beautifully. No banging or crashing and it feels much more planted and confidence inspiring in the bends – though admitedly there aren’t that many bends on the M4!
A sign of how good a job the BCs are doing is that there are no cabin rattles or squeaks – I mean none. It’s bizzare. The whole car just feels tense and taut as opposed to wallowey and bouncy; the BCs have eradicated the slack in the OEM rope. I’m going to have a play around with the settings and ride height so that it’s as good as it can be but coilovers – be they KWs, BCs or AN Other – are another essential mod in my opinion both for aesthetics but also to let the chassis come into it's own.
I’m coming from a Quicksilver OMG, which is a quality if ultimately flawed, bit of kit. I’ve always been a defender of the Quicksilver because if you can look past the occasional resonance it makes the most fantastic sound. I must say though that the full system that's been put on the car is on a totally different level. I was initially worried about the tailpipes of all things, as I really like the size of the OMG tailpipes. I don’t know whether the picture posted further up was taken at a funny angle, but it makes the new pipes look at bit pokey. I’m happy to say that actually in real life they’re only a smidgen smaller than the OMGs and look spot on. Anyway, enough of my aesthetic rambling. If the crappy I-phone video below is working you can kind of get a rough idea of what the car now sounds like. Although none were on show in the video the mrs assures me that fire comes out on full bore gear changes – whether this will happen once the remap sorts the fuelling I don’t know. All I know is fire and sticky back plastic don’t mix… lol
http://i750.photobucket.com/albums/xx143/Cannuk89/IMG_0178_zps6246b8d9.mp4
So that leaves the engine itself. I can’t really come to too many conclusions at the moment. It’s running the ph1 ECU in OEM spec, which obviously isn’t doing it any favours. There is an ever so slight hesitation at 2,500rpm, which Ben expected (something to do with the plenum spacer) and it’s over fuelling and runs quite a bit colder than normal, although this isn’t surprising considering how much more air is flowing through now. I’ll be honest, I’ve forgotten what the car felt like to drive before so I really can’t compare between then and now. All I can say is that I think the raw ingredients are all there for a bit of decent power, the trophy coils mean the spark can be turned up to 11 and the flow is as good as it can be without starting to play with the engine itself. I’ve given the car to Ben for as long as he needs it as he wants to try a few things out. The engine is clearly being held back by the ECU at the moment but it still felt strong and mechanically we’re totally sorted, which is the main thing :approve:
I would say a huge thanks to Scott at this point but he and I both realise that I’ll be coming back for more (already got the wheels in motion!) so we can leave all that malarkey until he’s finally put his spanners away and I’ve finally put my wallet away!!
This day was a long time in the coming but I can honestly say, from my brief time with the car today, it’s bloody brilliant. Really, really bloody brilliant.
Good read and write up mate. Exhaust sounds awesome. Is it the janspeed Decat? So are you got for an ecu upgrade? Getting rid of the wrap and back to kn51 zkw's OEM looks and stealth upgrade? just reading in time for summer too. Found some vids of me driving it the other day on my laptop when I bought the ktec exhaust. Will send over if you like. :race:
Cheers Matt. Really pleased with the exhaust. Yeah its the Janspeed full decat with bespoke tail pipes. No resonance, OEM idle and then crash,bang, wallop when revved
Not going for an ECU upgrade yet as there's isn't really any need to. The stock ECU is actually quite advanced and certainly more than adequate for my purposes, just needs setting up to account for the changed characteristics of the engines performance.
Haha. The wrap's staying put until the guarantee expires next summer, but I've not even really thought about what happens next to be honest. Loving the RB at the mo but you never know, perhaps IS will win out in the end
Not going for an ECU upgrade yet as there's isn't really any need to. The stock ECU is actually quite advanced and certainly more than adequate for my purposes, just needs setting up to account for the changed characteristics of the engines performance.
Haha. The wrap's staying put until the guarantee expires next summer, but I've not even really thought about what happens next to be honest. Loving the RB at the mo but you never know, perhaps IS will win out in the end
Jon, great report, and yes the weather couldn't have been any better today - was out most of the day but sadly not in a one of the motors that I would like to drive on a day like this - friends & family time you see, but have now ended up with rather a sore head!
Anyway, can't wait to see your Phase 1.5 in the flesh.
I have never driven a Phase 1, but find that the clutch on #002 is incredibly light, so does that mean it feels lighter than a standard Phase 2? I feel it is a bit too light and smooth, so know what you mean when you compare to the Phase 1. I think this applies to all newer cars - I know this is the case with Porsches.
Great to hear that the BC coilovers perform well - very good value for money. How is the bodyroll on the the setting you have now? May be a group buy is in order here. Certainly something I will put on the list.
Enjoy!
Anyway, can't wait to see your Phase 1.5 in the flesh.
Your report on the flywheel is really interesting - very different to my experience on the 911 RS'. In those you could definitely hear a chatter on idling and when on the move it is not that bad. Of course they did not have any insulation, so the engine mechanical and soundtrack may have drowned the chatter out, but the response from the engine when you blip the throttle is electric. Trust it is the same now with yours, which should be really pronounced when rev matching on downshifts. This is a key drawback with road/GT cars.taipan":1tm7cc6h said:
I have never driven a Phase 1, but find that the clutch on #002 is incredibly light, so does that mean it feels lighter than a standard Phase 2? I feel it is a bit too light and smooth, so know what you mean when you compare to the Phase 1. I think this applies to all newer cars - I know this is the case with Porsches.
Great to hear that the BC coilovers perform well - very good value for money. How is the bodyroll on the the setting you have now? May be a group buy is in order here. Certainly something I will put on the list.
Enjoy!
Great read Jon. Glad all went well which I was always sure it would do. Sounds like its all going to add up to a nice ph3! I'm sure the effects of the flywheel will become more apparent once the final mapping is done.
As for the coilovers, they sound promising so far! Can't wait to see what they are like being driven in anger.
As for the coilovers, they sound promising so far! Can't wait to see what they are like being driven in anger.
Lankan":1ytqdqyw said:
Cheers Dulan.
On idle you definitely can’t hear anything from the lightweight flywheel. I didn’t really give the car any stick (don’t think I’ve ever managed to perform a perfect rev matching downshift! Lol) and kept to a pretty steady 60 on the motorway, but, as far as I could tell, the only differences were the wire wool sound on engaging a gear and then the almost imperceptible hiss in the background once in-gear. Like you say the volume of the ‘hiss’ may increase once I start removing the interior as it’s completely OEM at the minute bar the seats and wheel.
Lankan":1ytqdqyw said:
From memory the ph1 clutch was noticeably weightier than the ph2. I liked that as it felt like you were physically have to push things about internally to change gear – silly but true! I couldn’t say whether the clutch feel is now lighter or heavier than a standard ph2, but I found the lighter clutch feel with the smaller biting point I've now got makes for a more focused driving experience, which in turn makes it more of a joy to flick through the gear box.
As I said, from my brief experience, the lightweight flywheel is by far and away the best thing that’s been put on the car. It changes the whole character of the driving experience by adding a useful degree of focus to one of the key ways you interact with the car! Try it out for yourself when we next meet up and see whether it floats your boat as the changed characteristics may not be to your liking!
Lankan":1ytqdqyw said:
They really do represent excellent value for money and are absolutely perfect for the fast road use I’ll put them to. The 12 year old dampers won’t have been doing the car any favours but, as other have said many, many times about coilovers, the difference really is confidence inspiring and in a car that’s not exactly the easiest thing to place on a road, increased confidence can only be a good thing.
Oldskoolbaby":1ytqdqyw said:
Thanks Brett. Ph3! Guess that makes yours as Ph4 then! Lol
I’ve never used a Vee with a lightweight flywheel before, I’ve completely forgotten what the car was like to drive and the Audi well and truly muddied the power delivery waters so I wasn’t really sure what to expect! So far so good, but I’ll wait till the mappings finished before posting some definitive thoughts.
Coilovers felt very promising. They look to be a quality bit of kit and the car certainly feels very nice to drive. Not to mention the fact that Scott gave me the standard suspension back in a (big) box and bloody hell those things weigh a ton [smilie=icon_eek.gif] , so I imagine I’ve saved a good chunk of weight by swapping them out!
TRW1":1ytqdqyw said:
Thanks! Sure yours isn’t going to sound too shabby!! Much longer to go until it’s done? Looked pretty much finished. :approve:
UberMeister":1ytqdqyw said:Excellent report looking forward to seeing and hearing ( :evil: ) this creation in the flesh
Cheers Tim, just a shame I couldn’t get it to the PH Sunday Service. Oh well, it’ll definitely be there for the next one.
paul o":1ytqdqyw said:
Thanks Paul. Glad she’s back too! Long old road - well very short actually compared to some – but I’m looking forward to a summer of enjoyment before the process starts all over again in the winter
ddouble":712zjxg7 said:
It does sound absolutely fantastic at the minute. Scott was saying that on test drives comments were made that it could be heard quite a while before it was seen!!
Not ruling out cutting into the silencer to fit straight pipes at some point, but then again I don't want to take the p1ss too much as, having heard the car with nothing from the downpipes back, it is LOUD!!!
Okay, would be interesting to hear this "hiss" you describe. Does the "hiss" increase as the revs and/or speed increases?taipan":w1hzlms1 said:Lankan":w1hzlms1 said:
Cheers Dulan.
On idle you definitely can’t hear anything from the lightweight flywheel. I didn’t really give the car any stick (don’t think I’ve ever managed to perform a perfect rev matching downshift! Lol) and kept to a pretty steady 60 on the motorway, but, as far as I could tell, the only differences were the wire wool sound on engaging a gear and then the almost imperceptible hiss in the background once in-gear. Like you say the volume of the ‘hiss’ may increase once I start removing the interior as it’s completely OEM at the minute bar the seats and wheel.
Indeed I like the feel when you have to push the pedals, so a bit of weight is a good thing. Trust you have a Ph 2 clutch? Any reason you didn't opt for the Ph1 item?Lankan":w1hzlms1 said:
I am not surprised - the driving experience is so much better! Just try to rev match on a downshift, in a straight line without using the brake, and given the weight difference between the OEM and TTV item (of almost 10 kg!) you should certainly feel its effect. Thanks, would love to have a go the Ph 1.5 if you let me. When will you be done and dusted with the remapping, and the final bits and bobs? I recall you were going to SRR in the near future. Perhaps I can try to come over to have a nosey?taipan":w1hzlms1 said:
Great stuff. A good set up for fast road use would be the perfect end result - compliant but not too harsh a ride. Did Scott set the car up for you, or did you take it to a set up specialist?taipan":w1hzlms1 said:
By the way, your exhaust sounds ace. :approve:
#002 is going in end of March for its annual TLC, so will need to decide on the course of action in pretty short order. Roll on summer! :race:
Lankan":2l3sucm5 said:
Can’t really say I noticed a change in volume when on the move. Big caveats though: I only drove the car for an hour or so; I didn’t really hammer it and the Janspeed really makes itself known!
I’m heading towards a more stripped out, focussed car so chatter, hiss, humming etc wouldn’t really bother me. Maybe drop by SRR in April and we can take it for a spin and you can see (hear) first-hand as I don’t want to encourage something that wouldn’t be in keeping with what you look for in your car!
Lankan":2l3sucm5 said:
I opted for a new ph1 clutch as it’s the stronger item and I’ve exceeded my quota of ph2 parts for this year. Lol
Lankan":2l3sucm5 said:
The flywheel certainly makes the car more eager to rev. Although I didn’t hoon it, even pulling away is a more precise feeling. The clutch feels more like a switch now (tiny biting point), which I thought would take me a while to get used to, but if you apply the principles of a learner driver – 2,000 rpm and then feed the clutch in smoothly – it’s no more difficult than OEM; had it mastered in about 15 mins and by the time I arrived at Ben’s it felt natural. People are probably bored of reading it now, but seriously, the thing is a revelation and goes quite some way to making best use of the performance on offer.
Lankan":2l3sucm5 said:
Scott set the car up, but reading the (hilarious) Taiwanese to English instructions it’s all very straight forward in terms of adjusting the coilover settings. I’ll probably opt for a full geo and set-up at a local specialist, not so much because Scott didn’t do a good job, but more that I can speak to whoever does the job so that I know the do’s and don’ts!
Aiming to not stray too far from the current ride height but firm up the spring rate a touch and set the dampers to medium, then hard so that I can find what I’m looking for in terms of the use I put the car to.
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