ULEZ charge to drive a Clio V6

[GPH]

So the new Mayor of London has announced that the Ultra Low Emissions Zone ULEZ ( so not a charge for being a Lesbian which had occurred to me ) may be introduced before the planned date of 2020 but more amazingly he would like to move the boundary area from the planned congestion charge zone of Central London to encompass the whole of London inside the North and South circular roads! meaning millions of cars will have to pay a daily charge of £12.50, plus unlike the congestion charge which only operates during the day, ULEZ will operate 24 hours a day! There must be at least a million and a half households in that larger area as the Greater London census lists 3.3 million households in 2011. So how many cars?

And of course what happens in London will be copied elsewhere as a revenue stream.

Primarily aimed at getting diesel cars off the road (only euro 6 diesel registered from Sept 2015 are exempt), the minimum requirement for petrol cars is Euro 4 or cars registered after 1 January 2006.
It's good news and bad news for us. The V6 230 phase 1 is only Euro 3 but phase 2 is Euro 4 from its introduction in 2003.

The ULEZ rules state the following.......
As some manufacturers started producing and using vehicles or engines that met the Euro standard before it was legally required, some vehicles first registered before the dates shown in the table will also meet the ULEZ standard. These vehicles are known as 'early adopters' and will be dealt with on a case by case basis.

Who knew a 3 litre V6 powered beast would be considered an Ultra Low emission vehicle in 2020! :rofl: :race:

We need to get that application in for the Vee as an early adopter!
So my Vee might be getting more miles put on it from 2020!

[mention=3507,#003300]Lankan[/mention] and [mention=4829,#000000]MarkK[/mention] discussed the original plan here a few months ago
viewtopic.php?f=11&t=21779&hilit=emissions

 

[Lankan]

Graeme, interesting, but I am a bit confused about how the Phase 2 Vee is deemed eligible. Eligibility criteria for Euro 4 states the following:
"Date from which manufacturers must register new vehicles meeting the new emission standards (usually a year earlier for earlier adopters)"

Does it mean that since there were no changes to the Phase 2's emissions, since it was introduced in 2002/2003, the Phase 2 is considered to be eligible as if Renault registered it in 2006?

Good thing I live outside the North & South Circular, just hope they don't extend this range to include the M25!

 

[GPH]

I just went by the Press release issued at Geneva Show in 2003 which stated the ph2 was already Euro IV compliant. I don't know what evidence they will require nearer the time and whether the manufacturer will have had to register it as Euro IV compliant at the time or whether it came be done retrospectively. sounds like a whole can of worms as usual if they are prepared to consider cars "on a case by case basis" as it proposes!
Then once they have got the public to accept this for eco reasons it won't just be in the cities but could easily just apply it to any car via the road tax system effectively pricing them off the road.

In light of the recent investment talk around so many 1980s/90s cars at the moment I really think this could have a massive effect on values of cars built from the 1980s ( because I think an exemption is going to be the rolling 40 years classic rule so in 2020 anything up to 1980 will be exempt) up to 2006 because unlike the congestion charge which gives a 90% discount for residents, the ULEZ daily charge will not be discounted for residents after 2023. I feel another scrapage scheme coming on and it will clear out most of the low value stuff from the last 3 decades that was hanging around unless it can be garaged or is not needed in a city.

 

[renaultalpine]

Great that means there is not a single vehicle I own that I will be able to park outside my house. Bet there will be a lot of very unhappy people. Notice he kept that one quiet until he was voted in lol. I don't think it should be allowed to reveal major policies like this until you are in. Serves anyone right who voted for him and now the rest will have to suffer too.

 

[GPH]

So this T charge as its now called (toxicity apparently) is being introduced into the London congestion charge zone from 23rd October this year and applies to all petrol and diesel cars that are not at least euro4. Its been mis-reported as any car older than 2006 but that's when Euro4 was compulsory but some cars were early adopters like the ph2 V6. Mayor Khan plans to bring forward the date of the ULEZ zone to cover the whole of central London inside the North South circular to 2019. cue riots on the streets I think for that.

 

[maxi.man]

So this T charge as its now called (toxicity apparently) is being introduced into the London congestion charge zone from 23rd October this year and applies to all petrol and diesel cars that are not at least euro4. Its been mis-reported as any car older than 2006 but that's when Euro4 was compulsory but some cars were early adopters like the ph2 V6. Mayor Khan plans to bring forward the date of the ULEZ zone to cover the whole of central London inside the North South circular to 2019. cue riots on the streets I think for that.

Ace cafes going to be quiet then

 

[Lankan]

The squeeze is now definitely on, so when will manufacturers be asked to stop selling diesel vehicles for private use? We still see new diesel cars being marketed, and the virtues of diesel being trumpeted in the press! Maybe the only way is to stop buying diesel vehicles.

Good news is, as Graeme states above, the Clio V6 255 (Phase 2) is not subject to this charge. Having raised an enquiry with them, today, I received the following response from Transport for London (TfL).

"Based on the information that you have provided, your vehicle, registration HV53VKB RENAULT CLIO RENAULT
SPORT V6 255 Blue, is not subject to the Emissions Surcharge"

 

[GPH]

Excellent News Dulan. I hadn't got around to raising the enquiry ( how basic that you have to email them and they don't just have a list or reg finder linked to the DVLA). Not that I care at the moment - going into the central Con charge zone once a year on a weekday. It's this crap about expanding it to the whole of London by 2019 that is ridiculous and means the Vee will get a lot more use as the only Low Emissions vehicle I have :rofl:

 

[Lankan]

Excellent News Dulan. I hadn't got around to raising the enquiry ( how basic that you have to email them and they don't just have a list or reg finder linked to the DVLA). Not that I care at the moment - going into the central Con charge zone once a year on a weekday. It's this crap about expanding it to the whole of London by 2019 that is ridiculous.

Indeed Graeme, if one is only going into (or through) the congestion zone once in a while it does not really matter. Doesn't really affect me either as I am based between the North Circular and M25, but sent the enquiry just to make sure that the Vee will be exempt from this T-Charge.

The letter goes further and states the following, which made me laugh.

"From 23 October 2017 you will only be charged the standard congestion charge when travelling in the Congestion
Charge zone Monday to Friday 7am to 6pm"

 

[GPH]

Gave the battery its Winter monthly charge today (re taxed from 1st April I think) happy in the knowledge that all the CO2 coming out the back was Ultra Low Emission.

 

[Lankan]

Looking good - must dig mine out from hibernation as well. Weather is certainly looking better now, albeit a bit windy.

 

[JimA]

Absolutely gorgeous colour

 

[MarkK]

It is a stunning colour, and I can't think of many others that have folks so amazed when they see it for the first time in the sunlight. It is very well named as the surface does look like liquid.

Mine is being awakened from it's slumbers this week, and back on the road next month. This year is the big service at Scott's, so I'm looking forward to a good inspection when the back end comes out. The clutch does need doing as well!

 

[rustedandrotten]

It is a stunning colour, and I can't think of many others that have folks so amazed when they see it for the first time in the sunlight. It is very well named as the surface does look like liquid.

Mine is being awakened from it's slumbers this week, and back on the road next month. This year is the big service at Scott's, so I'm looking forward to a good inspection when the back end comes out. The clutch does need doing as well!

If the clutch needs doing, pound to a penny your flywheel needs scrapping as well, budget for a TTV plus phase 1 clutch :salut:

 

[MarkK]

If the clutch needs doing, pound to a penny your flywheel needs scrapping as well, budget for a TTV plus phase 1 clutch :salut:

Are they as nice to use as the std phase 2 clutch with dual mass flywheel? I find the Phase 2 clutch a lot more progressive than the Phase 1, which is more like a race clutch...in or out! Great for getting up and going, but not so easy to drive smoothly in traffic.

I was thinking about the starter, which Scott reckons is a bit weak, water pump, clutch slave and engine mounts as well. The car is now past it's use-by date after all at 12 years old!

 

[rustedandrotten]

If the clutch needs doing, pound to a penny your flywheel needs scrapping as well, budget for a TTV plus phase 1 clutch :salut:

Are they as nice to use as the std phase 2 clutch with dual mass flywheel? I find the Phase 2 clutch a lot more progressive than the Phase 1, which is more like a race clutch...in or out! Great for getting up and going, but not so easy to drive smoothly in traffic.

I was thinking about the starter, which Scott reckons is a bit weak, water pump, clutch slave and engine mounts as well. The car is now past it's use-by date after all at 12 years old!

I personally prefer the TTV, the engine is much more responsive, not too worried about smoothness though not noticed any problems other than getting rid of the variomatic transmission when the flywheel started to fall to bits. Deffo change all the parts you mentioned,, starter a nightmare with engine in.

 

[Lankan]

Mark, have to agree with Simon re the TTV Lightweight Flywheel, which requires the stronger Phase 1 clutch. Yes there is a slight loss of refinement, and the ability to 'crawl' forward smoothly when in traffic, but the IMO the benefits of faster revving engine, and the feel and enjoyment outweigh these negatives. The TTV is considerably lighter than the Phase 2's DMF.

Definitely get the starter motor changed for one with bonded magnets - it is rather awkward to have the starter motor fail, especially during a weekend away (don't ask how I know this)!

 

[rustedandrotten]

Mark, have to agree with Simon re the TTV Lightweight Flywheel, which requires the stronger Phase 1 clutch. Yes there is a slight loss of refinement, and the ability to 'crawl' forward smoothly when in traffic, but the IMO the benefits of faster revving engine, and the feel and enjoyment outweigh these negatives. The TTV is considerably lighter than the Phase 2's DMF.

Definitely get the starter motor changed for one with bonded magnets - it is rather awkward to have the starter motor fail, especially during a weekend away (don't ask how I know this)!

Bolted magnets, not bonded, it is the adhesive that fails and causes the starter to pack up :approve:

 

[Lankan]

Mark, have to agree with Simon re the TTV Lightweight Flywheel, which requires the stronger Phase 1 clutch. Yes there is a slight loss of refinement, and the ability to 'crawl' forward smoothly when in traffic, but the IMO the benefits of faster revving engine, and the feel and enjoyment outweigh these negatives. The TTV is considerably lighter than the Phase 2's DMF.

Definitely get the starter motor changed for one with bonded magnets - it is rather awkward to have the starter motor fail, especially during a weekend away (don't ask how I know this)!

Bolted magnets, not bonded, it is the adhesive that fails and causes the starter to pack up :approve:

Oops, my mistake, of course "bolted magnets" is what I intended to say........

 

[MarkK]

It will definately be getting a new starter and the other bits. I am a believer in preventative maintenance, especially with a car that can't be fixed on the side of the road!

I know what you guys are saying with the Ph1 clutch, and my Ph1 has always felt more focused than the Ph2. But having had an altercation with a lovely Skoda driver who decided to drive into me whilst on my motorbike, the old left ankle isn't quite what it used to be. Hence it's a lot easier to drive smoothly (in traffic) for me with 2 inches of clutch travel, rather that the half inch given by the Ph1. So I will probably get standard Ph2 bits put on, including a new rubbery flywheel.

Luckily, if I turn out of the house and go West, I have Wales to play in, so little or no traffic on the roads I use, all the way up to Snowdonia. Turn East and I'm in Gloucester, Cheltenham, M5, Bristol, Birmingham and the Cotswolds, all full of cars. So the Ph1 only goes West, whilst the Ph2 can go either way!