Alpine Renault 8 GTT

[Mark_L]

I'll get a spare body in the drivers seat just to see what changes occur before the spring change. I know what's wrong, but I like to measure up before making changes, so that after the change I measure again and then test. It's one of the reasons I can get close on the 1st assembly. It ran straight and centred straight 1st time out which is a first and proves that the measuring is worthwhile after all. The rear was at its lowest sensible point and settled another half inch on the road, so it has to be changed...........

Was doing a class A midget last week and with a driver the front camber switched 1/2 a degree from one side to the other.

 

[Steve Swan]

Once spent half an hour chasing 20lbs round and round on a Mallock. Once we got the driver to sit STILL, we got it spot on . The front camber issue I've got has plenty to do with my workshop floor !!!

 

[Steve Swan]

Waiting on springs arriving, but did get on with a few service items
Plugs have been in there 20+ years low miles tho.



Colours good nice digestive biscuit shade

New ones in



Cap and rotor done also. These probably needed doing when the engine was in the 10



I'm positive I can see the start of tracking marks on this



Rotor also not great

Did manage to effect a repair on the bottle valve though. Re soldered the pipe to the valve plate. It won't win a beauty contest, but it's sealed



Just got to do those springs and set up
more soon.........

 

[Steve Swan]

Well, as of today the 25th Jun 2022 the only outstanding jobs on @paule78 's R8 are to fit new rear springs and re-check the set up. Then the drivers seat needs to be changed and that's it for now. This is the end of phase 1, next job is to use and evaluate for Phase 2 (if there is going to be a phase 2) I have complied a list of bits to find and small jobs Paul can tackle on his own, Then there is the issue of the final version of the engine to be thought out and the clutch will have to be sorted out, it's ok, but that's all that can be said for it. It needs to be better
Dave (the bodyman) came by yesterday and gave a final polish to the bonnet, roof and engine cover. I did the rest of the bits. I don't do the cleaning cars thing, but took some pics as this is about as pretty as it will get
























So there we are. What came here as a Sad and down at heel old car will leave even Further down, but not sad..... A lot of it is much younger and I'm older...........

 

[DaveL485]

Great job mate! I'd like a nose around it so I hope Paul brings it to some events

 

[Steve Swan]

Great job mate! I'd like a nose around it so I hope Paul brings it to some events

I hope so too. It should be a really good platform to build from, depending on how much of a money pit Paul wants to make it. it is not finished, not by a long chalk, but what has been done won't need doing again. There is just a whole load of other stuff that could turn a good car into a great one..............

 

[Brigsy]

Looks awesome, great job. I cant imagine how many hours have gone into putting it together.

 

[Steve Swan]

Still no further forward. Spring arrived (singular) have fitted it and measured up good news is that it will work, bad news is that I don't have the other spring. Drivers seat requires 1 last mount to finish and thats it ............ maybe...............

 

[Steve Swan]

The spring has arrived, even though it's meant to be summer.......
It's in and been up and down the road and if you were remotely interested you would have looked at this before when I posted it the first time.



It had too much rear bias and felt a bit odd on the road. flicking it from side to side gave you the sensation it would swap ends , then when you actually got your teeth into a bend it would understeer, this was not the car to give to @paule78 .

Changing the rear springs has produced this sheet with my long suffering Brother in Law sat in the seat for the duration and for the sake of slightly better science



Sorry about the quality of the pic , but you will note several changes, most if not all positive
The Road test revealed a more benign car which is much more neutral, but actually has a better front end. This while not perfect is close enough to return to it's owner for testing and appraisal an no doubt the production of a list of things to do.

This is the reason for measuring things once you have endured the pain of doing it a few times you can get where you want to be much quicker with subsequent attempts. when I first set up my 8 nearly 20 years ago. it took closer to 12 sheets to get something close to this for balance, and if you've read the Dauphine thread ..........Well you know don't you.
If I had not wrong footed myself with the wrong back springs thinking they were the right ones that are in now, then the 2nd sheet would have been the 1st sheet and I would have been a Legend (in my own mind anyway) but this is real life and I'm never that lucky


Definitely not much more soon......... bet you're glad.............

 

[paule78]

I would have been a Legend (in my own mind anyway) but this is real life and I'm never that lucky

I think you achieved legend status a while back

 

[DaveL485]

I think you achieved legend status a while back

I reckon he puts most of us to shame tbh

 

[Mark_L]

This is where experience comes into it and you have a pretty good idea before you even start.

Probably take me 10 sheets on my 5! I’m starting with Lotus Elise rear springs which uses a lightweight k series compared to the F4rt so need to find out the weight differences or just wait until it’s built and put it on the scales and go from there. An Elise weighs around 675kgs I’m hoping to get the 5 somewhere around 750/800kgs

 

[Steve Swan]

This is where experience comes into it and you have a pretty good idea before you even start.

Probably take me 10 sheets on my 5! I’m starting with Lotus Elise rear springs which uses a lightweight k series compared to the F4rt so need to find out the weight differences or just wait until it’s built and put it on the scales and go from there. An Elise weighs around 675kgs I’m hoping to get the 5 somewhere around 750/800kgs

My corner weight gauge is home made and uses a single Mini wheel cylinder as the load cylinder it is exactly 0.66 square inches, meaning you take the reading and multiply by 0.66 ( Force= Load x Area) to get the actual weight. It is not totally accurate and 4 wheel scales are much better, but out of my budget range. You can see that I added one Brother in Law at approximately 75 kg, but the total weight increased by only 35. I think it is chassis flex that leaves you missing 40-50 kg from the all up weight, but as always it isn't specific numbers you are looking for it's the relationship between the numbers that gives you what you want, well except wealth and power...

 

[Duncan Grier]

This is where experience comes into it and you have a pretty good idea before you even start.

Probably take me 10 sheets on my 5! I’m starting with Lotus Elise rear springs which uses a lightweight k series compared to the F4rt so need to find out the weight differences or just wait until it’s built and put it on the scales and go from there. An Elise weighs around 675kgs I’m hoping to get the 5 somewhere around 750/800kgs

@Mark_L foucus on s2/vx220 as you are already within target weight.....especially turbo flavour

 

[BobG]

It's been a great story. And the narrator is one of a kind!

 

[Mark_L]

My corner weight gauge is home made and uses a single Mini wheel cylinder as the load cylinder it is exactly 0.66 square inches, meaning you take the reading and multiply by 0.66 ( Force= Load x Area) to get the actual weight. It is not totally accurate and 4 wheel scales are much better, but out of my budget range. You can see that I added one Brother in Law at approximately 75 kg, but the total weight increased by only 35. I think it is chassis flex that leaves you missing 40-50 kg from the all up weight, but as always it isn't specific numbers you are looking for it's the relationship between the numbers that gives you what you want, well except wealth and power...

I’m guessing the new rear springs may have had something to do with it. I noticed it lost camber up front too, did it raise the front at all with the new rear springs?

Got an 80’s Formula ford in which needs major reworking on the suspension, it’s all off but at the moment I’m doing the suspension and 5 linking an alloy dodges sprite which has a Rover k series in it. All stuff I like to do.

 

[Mark_L]

@Mark_L foucus on s2/vx220 as you are already within target weight.....especially turbo flavour

I think my Gaz golds are from a k series car but I’ll have a look to see if there’s any no.’s on the springs. But something to get me started.

 

[Steve Swan]

I’m guessing the new rear springs may have had something to do with it. I noticed it lost camber up front too, did it raise the front at all with the new rear springs?

Got an 80’s Formula ford in which needs major reworking on the suspension, it’s all off but at the moment I’m doing the suspension and 5 linking an alloy dodges sprite which has a Rover k series in it. All stuff I like to do.

To be honest Mark I had used 2 different camber gauges on sheet 1 and 2 . My posh angle gauge was out of batteries , so I had originally used the old string type . Test 2 had the better gauge , so correct rear springs had lifted rear, decreased camber on the rear, moved weight forward onto the front which had lowered slightly - couple of MM really . there is a bump in the floor which is the discrepancy on front camber - same on Dauph. steering angles had not changed (which is a good sign really) Coz there is no weight up front it is super sensitive and super sensitive to imbalance , it will now run at legal maximum hands free no problem . If I were being picky and having lived with it for a few months I can only see it's faults. It would be nice just a bit lower, but I realise that it will settle esp. the rear, so no point in being to hasty. Leave it over summer and see what needs to be done to finish it off. Paul needs to go on a quest for an 8G steering rack for it (straight swap higher ratio) it will likely need an engine/turbo upgrade, rebuild, possibly EFI conversion, it was all in Paul's original plan, but there is only so much you can do at once. It would be better if he got some use out of it and got used to it before taking the next step. It will be easy enough to get enough power to break the driveline, no problem, but what's the point. If you want to be sideways to victory everywhere on wet days it needs a diff . Going sideways without a diff is a total lottery, if you are not going to push it that hard, it can be left out . There is a lot to think about. one of the things I like about it is you can drive along at 60 and speak to the person in the passenger seat without raising your voice. I removed all the sound deadening as it collects moisture and smells. It could be reinstated in modern material making it quieter still. Ultimately it's not about what I would want, it's what @paule78 want's and he won't know that for sure until he has done some miles in it and lived with it for a bit

 

[Turbell]

@Steve Swan , Testament to you knowledge and skill on modding these RER, big difference between doing things to a car, and actually benefiting from what you've done.
Whatever its cost @paule78 for you to do the work,it's money well spent, you're in a different league to most of us.
You need to give me some part no.s and dimensions for gearbox bearings/synchro rings and stuff that you use, we've got loads of stuff that might be useful to you , but beyond my field of knowledge.

 

[Steve Swan]

@Steve Swan , Testament to you knowledge and skill on modding these RER, big difference between doing things to a car, and actually benefiting from what you've done.
Whatever its cost @paule78 for you to do the work,it's money well spent, you're in a different league to most of us.
You need to give me some part no.s and dimensions for gearbox bearings/synchro rings and stuff that you use, we've got loads of stuff that might be useful to you , but beyond my field of knowledge.

@Turbell Thanks for that.
I will try to get some part no's. Usually I tend to find there is a lot of bits kicking about for family one gearboxes = Small alloy and Iron one piece cases basically everything 1100cc and smaller. Family 2 stuff R8 and onward was fairly bulletproof in it's day, so there is less bits going about other than wrongly ordered parts which are usually unusual to say the least. always on the lookout for 10Q30207 diff bearings and N10787 pinion bearings and I'll get a slack handfull of part nos.