Andyquadra
Well-Known Member
might be worth talking to the citizens advice on where you stand legally, or we all just turn up on a saturday/sunday when there is limited staff and take it away.
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Renault 11 Turbo Phase 2 Restoration
- Thread starter Big Steve - Raider
- Start date
Thought you didn't think that was a good idea also?
DaveL485
Staff member
I have to be honest Steve, it's going to get nasty if you take it away. I genuinely think your best bet is to strike a deal for completion as planned.
Speak to the man in charge, discuss what it needs for completion, agree a price and target date with financial penalty for missing that date. I think £100 a week is fair. IN WRITING.
I know it sucks and I totally feel your pain, been through similar myself but I knew that taking it away wasn't the best option. My car has been away since February and it's still not back, but it is now almost done. Over budget, yes, ridiculous timeframe, yes, but in the end patience and reasoning were the best options because I communicated with the bodyshop and made them quite clear where the line in the sand was (This was a financial line, and because I had drawn it I allowed them extra time). In the end I got a fair bit of labour done for free which I see as recompense for their massive under-quote and awful turnaround.
Your situation isn't unusual, this happens a lot because it's not a normal, fast turnaround company car bumper spray or panel repair. They are the money-making jobs, theyre are a bit more hard work and why they get pushed back and back, plus no insurance companies wanting a fast turnaround etc.
Seriously, try and broker a deal with him to get it finished, because once it gets nasty nobody is going to come away happy.
Speak to the man in charge, discuss what it needs for completion, agree a price and target date with financial penalty for missing that date. I think £100 a week is fair. IN WRITING.
I know it sucks and I totally feel your pain, been through similar myself but I knew that taking it away wasn't the best option. My car has been away since February and it's still not back, but it is now almost done. Over budget, yes, ridiculous timeframe, yes, but in the end patience and reasoning were the best options because I communicated with the bodyshop and made them quite clear where the line in the sand was (This was a financial line, and because I had drawn it I allowed them extra time). In the end I got a fair bit of labour done for free which I see as recompense for their massive under-quote and awful turnaround.
Your situation isn't unusual, this happens a lot because it's not a normal, fast turnaround company car bumper spray or panel repair. They are the money-making jobs, theyre are a bit more hard work and why they get pushed back and back, plus no insurance companies wanting a fast turnaround etc.
Seriously, try and broker a deal with him to get it finished, because once it gets nasty nobody is going to come away happy.
Mart
Staff member
Good luck getting the guy to sign any contract where it states you'll penalize him £100 (or whatever) per week beyond the completion date. If you get any reply better than 'feck off' to that, you've done well...
If he's already pissed off, and you try a line like that, d'you honestly think he's gonna put his heart into the job? It's a double-edged sword scenario now as well, because if he rushes the job to get it done/get you off his back, it may not be the finish/high standard of work you were originally after...except at that stage you'll then owe him even more money.
If you don't want to go in heavy-handed, put a price on the work he's done so far & offer him that as a Hobson's choice.
If he's already pissed off, and you try a line like that, d'you honestly think he's gonna put his heart into the job? It's a double-edged sword scenario now as well, because if he rushes the job to get it done/get you off his back, it may not be the finish/high standard of work you were originally after...except at that stage you'll then owe him even more money.
If you don't want to go in heavy-handed, put a price on the work he's done so far & offer him that as a Hobson's choice.
DaveL485
Staff member
He won't do that, he's from Peterboghorror and theyre all soft as shite
Steve i've just read this thread from start to finnish, awesome car and you've put in some bloody good work, i don't care how long its taken, i had never even seen or heard of an 11 Turbo till seeing this, they look damn smart, so so sorry its ended this way, i used to run my own car body repair shop up untill 5 or so years ago and unfortunately did have a similar incident, mine made worse by the fact i needed the money to do it having spent more on panels and materials than expected (excluding my labour completely) and the customer refusing to pay anymore till done, i ended up doing it just £200 over budget but at 6 months over schedule it actually cost me money to quite an extent, but i stuck to my promises and delivered it better than expected, situations happen its how you deal with them that counts.
On the subject of how to deal with this... heres my 2p.. just my personal oppinion on how you aproach this chancer
Inform them you are removing it on xx xx xxxx date and the payment will be agreed when your given a factuall invoice of spent hours and materials in full detail and not the half baked job the receptionist knocked up in 5 mins to get near to the bills he's got this month
The vehicle is being removed as you no longer trust them to complete the job due to unproffessional manner in which they have treated yours and other customers cars in the shop (be helpfull to speak to the ferrari owner, sure he'd be thrilled his supercar is getting its expensive body parts just chucked on and in someone's car rather than shelving/ stands) You not only dispute the time taken but also the wasted materials in priming it which will need redoing by the future bodyshop anyway hence you informed them of removal BEFORE that was done, they have cost you MORE at the furture bodyshop now (no respected bodyshop will trust other peoples priming in my experience, just not worth the risk to just "block it back and paint"
You have had to pay excess storage for ALL the parts from the car for DOUBLE the amount of expected time so your already at a loss, not forgetting your now going to be doing a rebuild in winter instead of autumn, if they insist on pursuing you WILL be adding all these excess charges up (which you can prove)
Good luck with this
Wayne
On the subject of how to deal with this... heres my 2p.. just my personal oppinion on how you aproach this chancer
Inform them you are removing it on xx xx xxxx date and the payment will be agreed when your given a factuall invoice of spent hours and materials in full detail and not the half baked job the receptionist knocked up in 5 mins to get near to the bills he's got this month
The vehicle is being removed as you no longer trust them to complete the job due to unproffessional manner in which they have treated yours and other customers cars in the shop (be helpfull to speak to the ferrari owner, sure he'd be thrilled his supercar is getting its expensive body parts just chucked on and in someone's car rather than shelving/ stands) You not only dispute the time taken but also the wasted materials in priming it which will need redoing by the future bodyshop anyway hence you informed them of removal BEFORE that was done, they have cost you MORE at the furture bodyshop now (no respected bodyshop will trust other peoples priming in my experience, just not worth the risk to just "block it back and paint"
You have had to pay excess storage for ALL the parts from the car for DOUBLE the amount of expected time so your already at a loss, not forgetting your now going to be doing a rebuild in winter instead of autumn, if they insist on pursuing you WILL be adding all these excess charges up (which you can prove)
Good luck with this
Wayne
DaveL485
Staff member
If you quit on it now I will literally never, ever stop giving you stick you about it. Like, even more than hair bear care bear Ewok boy @AdeyThanks very much for your comments @Metzy /Wayne, much appreciated matey!
It's really nice to read the supporting words from you and all members in this thread as I'm literally changing my mind from one hour to the next on what to do with this car now.. :dp:
The bodyshop saga continues.... :dy:
Went over yesterday afternoon to confront the guy and discuss this issue face to face. I was hoping to come to an agreement for him to finish the car with an agreed timeline & date. However when I arrive I see another old classic car getting dropped off into his compound (Citroen DS) and there being hardly anyone about..?! A young lad came out who recognised me and we started to chat, turns out that Mark is not there.. he's gone BACK to Spain, having just returned on the 15th October. It was at that very moment I wondered if the whole business could be heading down the drain and Mark is running away from his responsibilities in Spain?!
So no-more work was done to my car, but thankfully it was still stuck inside the unit in the same position, rather than outside like some other poor cars were. It was at this point I noticed exactly how many cars were hanging about.. bloody place is now starting to look like a scrap yard, rather than a bodyshop with cars in various states of work...
Mark is supposed to be coming back to UK next Tuesday (1st October) but I was told to "ring before I come again" so I can ensure he's back...
What a balls-up...
Went over yesterday afternoon to confront the guy and discuss this issue face to face. I was hoping to come to an agreement for him to finish the car with an agreed timeline & date. However when I arrive I see another old classic car getting dropped off into his compound (Citroen DS) and there being hardly anyone about..?! A young lad came out who recognised me and we started to chat, turns out that Mark is not there.. he's gone BACK to Spain, having just returned on the 15th October. It was at that very moment I wondered if the whole business could be heading down the drain and Mark is running away from his responsibilities in Spain?!
So no-more work was done to my car, but thankfully it was still stuck inside the unit in the same position, rather than outside like some other poor cars were. It was at this point I noticed exactly how many cars were hanging about.. bloody place is now starting to look like a scrap yard, rather than a bodyshop with cars in various states of work...
Mark is supposed to be coming back to UK next Tuesday (1st October) but I was told to "ring before I come again" so I can ensure he's back...
What a balls-up...
Barry spurgeon
Active Member
Ring before you go?
So he can hide out back and make out his in Spain.... again.
I'd just turn up unannounced. If you can not come to an aggrement with the man.
I'd Hire a guy with a flat bed and get him to pick it up! Go there with him, it don't have to get nasty.
Failing that, get it now wile he ain't about....
By what your saying, he should be glad of the space.
So he can hide out back and make out his in Spain.... again.
I'd just turn up unannounced. If you can not come to an aggrement with the man.
I'd Hire a guy with a flat bed and get him to pick it up! Go there with him, it don't have to get nasty.
Failing that, get it now wile he ain't about....
By what your saying, he should be glad of the space.
Red21
Well-Known Member
IF the place is disintegrating due to poor management and you cannot remove the shell for what ever reason, I would pay a visit to audit your own parts that belongs to the car and label them with your owner details and job number plus photographs.
Then if the auditors/liquidation/bailiffs' appeared they should realise that it does not belong to the company and therefore an asset. You should then be able to retrieve it quicker.
Then if the auditors/liquidation/bailiffs' appeared they should realise that it does not belong to the company and therefore an asset. You should then be able to retrieve it quicker.
No I didn't ring him, because I was told he was back from Spain on 15th Oct so assumed he's working from then on... they said he would contact me and he didn't so I'm not holding out much hope of tracking him down. I wanted to turn up UN-announced for the element of surprise like you suggest. Part of me wants to hire a trailer & go there this Sat... but who's to say it'll be open..?!
Steve I admire your patience and trust, though I believe it highly misplaced here, but you need to just go an collect it asap before something happens to it OR as suggested above, the business and your project gets taken down with it, either in the case it goes missing or baliffs come in and lock the place down, id also be trowling DS forums for the owner to help before his life gets ruined aswell...
You cant despite what is legally correct, give anymore time to a person that either isn't remotely interested or values his own life over anyone elses, youll not only let him send you mad but also the chance of ending up even worse financially
Wayne
You cant despite what is legally correct, give anymore time to a person that either isn't remotely interested or values his own life over anyone elses, youll not only let him send you mad but also the chance of ending up even worse financially
Wayne
Haz
Well-Known Member
There's a place local to me like that, the owner keeps taking £500 deposit as the cars get dropped off and he's out playing about while the minions can't cope with the workload but yet he continues to take more saying its in queue format. It's at least 3mths before they get looked at!
TNT Andy
Well-Known Member
Get a trailer up there Steve, if what you are saying looks plausible then you're going to have to do this. Like you said, it doesn't have to get nasty, but you're going to have to turn the tables here and have him chasing you for the cash you may owe (that's yet to be worked out due to your losses etc). I'm going to have to make the assumption that you are possibly wanting this place to finish the work, if that's the case, you're trust is misplaced, I was stung once by this type of practice - never again.
Barry spurgeon
Active Member
What ever way you cut it, the whole experience has taken up far too much of your life. Not in a positive light.
Get the car, find a new body shop and draw a line under it.
No one needs unnecessary aggravation in life!
Especially when you drive a bloody Renault!!!!
:bv:
Get the car, find a new body shop and draw a line under it.
No one needs unnecessary aggravation in life!
Especially when you drive a bloody Renault!!!!
:bv:
TNT Andy
Well-Known Member
The good news continues with this project... Dropped in unannounced to the body-shop today and finally found the owner in his office....
Walked In and was not trying to antagonise him but was honestly trying to discuss the situation to meet a mutually agreeable solution... and potentially even to give him the go ahead to finish the job!
- Started off telling me that when he's working 14 hours a day 7 days a week so having a 7 week holiday in Spain was his prerogative.
- Agreed and said everyone deserves a holiday but I'd also like my car painted whilst he was working..
- Then continued to tell me that my car was "In the book to be finished" the week after I picked it up but when I told him I was collecting he then worked on it solidly to finish priming it ready for collection then all it would need was blocking back and painting to be finished.
- Commented that I couldn't accept that as it had been in the book many times before and it was still sat there..
- Told me that in 10 years of doing this work he's never met such an idiot customer as me..
- Knew he was flustered as he started to get aggressive.
- Started to look through his book to prove the work done
- I countered saying that I had proof of the times I had visited and took pictures of the car showing him my records.
- Didn't like what I was showing him so then screwed up the document I was showing him and told me to fu*k off and literally pushed me out of his bodyshop...
- I warned him that If he even touched me he'd be charged as quick as a flash..
- I find myself stood outside the bodyshop no further on.. He said I should go back when he's calmed down so I can talk to him like an adult
- I comment that's now then as I was still calm..
- Door shut in my face..
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