Mk1 / Ph1 Mégane Cabriolet F4R-t conversion

[andybond]

Other than maybe bonnet risers (CHAV!), and a scoop / some ducting to pull cold air in around the back of the engine.

Risers wont work when you are moving. They simply reduce the low air pressure needed to get air from the front of the car through the rad.

Scoops around the back wont work for the same reason.

What you need it to create as much low pressure behind the rad as possible and then force air through your rad. To do this

Create ducting around the rad and front of car so that air can only go into the rad.
Create a seal in the engine bay by putting plastic/metal sheeting across the bottom of the engine bay.
You are trying to basically force the air using high pressure ( your car running into the air ) into the engine bay ( air is as still as possible , and low pressure )

a NACA duct is only really useful for RAM air for directional cooling of objects such as brake discs via ducting and outside the sealed bay , and scoops etc are only useful for top mounted interwarmers, sorry coolers.

I have done waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much investigation on this when I had my C63 ...

 

[binge]

Why are you teeing vacuum off to the FPR? The Laguna ran static pressure and will be mapped as such on the original ECU you'll be using

Hmm, totally overlooked that. In which case, I guess I'll be using it to power a boost gauge then.

Create ducting around the rad and front of car so that air can only go into the rad.
Create a seal in the engine bay by putting plastic/metal sheeting across the bottom of the engine bay.
You are trying to basically force the air using high pressure ( your car running into the air ) into the engine bay ( air is as still as possible , and low pressure )

I've still got all the plastic ducting from the original 1.6 rad. The length of it wont be enough obviously, but I could probably do something with either end of it.

 

[binge]

We seem to have taken 3 steps forward, but immediately a couple of steps back.

So I picked the ECU up today. Emulator fitted, ECU tested at JR. Powering up and accepting the immo code.
Run a few errands, before getting home. Eagerly popped the ECU onto the engine loom of the Megane, and before cranking it over, decided to plug into Delphi and just seen what was happening.

Good start! It allowed me to clear down the 6 million logged fault codes from previous ownership, and me powering it up last month without any components plugged into it, like throttle pedal etc.

So fault codes all cleared.
Jumped onto component testing, this also was unable to work before the emulator was fitted. But went into fuel pump testing, hit the button, and it primed the fuel pump for a good 20 seconds. Long enough for me to set the FPR at 3.5 bar for a safe engine start up.

After temp fitting the IC onto the original pipe work so I had a full intake circuit, I turned the key.

Cranked it over on the key, FPR gauge did a little dance as it was firing the pump up, but no engine starty.
So first things first, pulled the ignition coils out, pulled the plugs out, chucked plugs in the end of the coils, and cranked it over on the key again, just to see if it was even trying to go.

No sparks.

Ran a quick test on the multi meter from ECU pins to coils 1 and 4, buzzed out fine.
Power lines to coils 2 and 3, take their feed from the fuel pump power. So when fuel pump is on, coils are charged, so to speak.
Fuel pump off, 0v (Ground) at coils 2 and 3.
Fuel pump manually primed on the relay with power probe.
12v at coils 2 and 3.

So all wiring is good and working.

Refitted plugs, coils, and tried again. still nothing.


So chucked the Delphi back on, to do a quick read / get some live data.
And it's behaving like it was before the emulator was fitted.
Wont let me erase any fault codes again, and it also wont let me run component testing.
So a bit frustrating.

So I'm aware that the car can not send a key signal, otherwise the ECU receiving 2 different key signals (1 from actual key, and 1 from emulator) will give a code clash, and it wont work.

AFAIK, the original Megane IMMO had it's own designated line into the old 1.6 ECU. But to be sure, I disconnected the K-line from the car loom to the Laguna ECU, just incase it was sending a key signal through the old OBD. My theory behind this, is the ONLY wiring from the body of the car, to the Laguna ECU (Apart from obvious 12v feed, earth, and throttle pedal), is the K line to the OBD socket. And I just tapped into the original K-line wire at the original engine loom plug.


However, it made no difference. And still no spark.

I noticed the fuel pump did not do an initial prime on ignition power up. So I'm not entirely sure what's happened. I'm a little out of my depth with it.

I've turned it in for the night. The Megane battery is on charge, the ECU is off and in the kitchen. I'll have another look at it over the weekend, But I've got a feeling that the S3000 ECU, with an emulator fitted, maybe isn't an option.

Other than the logical advice from a couple of tuners, and somebody who is on the Renault scene that it 'should work', I've never actually spoken to somebody who HAS done it. So as far as it's looking, maybe it's just not a working method.


Fitting all the shite out of the Laguna, is not an option.

So if this cant be overcome with the S3000 ECU, then I think my only options are to either run a Ph1 172 ECU and throttle body on an adapter plate, then run stand alone turbo management.
Or, stand alone engine management. But I dont really fancy the price tag that comes with that.

Delphi not wanting to clear codes down.

And one thing that concerns me a bit.
Does this mean, that the immobilizer is active, and NOT letting the engine start.
Or does it mean that the key / code has been accepted. I.E, engine start is activated.

 

[Will D93]

Engine immob. - active

Means to me the Immobiliser is active and therefore cutting spark etc.

if your 3000 ecu gets a key signal other than the one from the emulator it wont work like you say, what key are you using to start the car? And have you removed all old megane/lauguna immob components from the setup including the key chips?

 

[binge]

I'm using the original 1.6 Mégane key to crank the engine.
Did some research to see how that key would have talked to the original 1.6 ECU and from what I could find, it had it's own specific line into the ECU.
I whipped the steering column cowling off just to be sure but there was no immo pick up ring around the barrel to unplug. I was expecting to find something there that reads the key?

In regards to wiring from the S3000 ECU. Everything engine side has been left the same. Apart from the cranking wire to the starter motor, and the alternator dash light wire. Which I've added in because the Laguna ran these two wires via the UCH.

The body side of the loom I had to bridge the gap of course, because I had to merge the Mégane into the S3000.

All I have connected from vehicle, to ECU is:

6 wires from throttle pedal to ECU (all original Laguna components)

Can-H and Can-L from S3000 ECU to original Mégane obd socket (I added the pins in)

K-Line from original Mégane obd socket to S3000

Fuel pump live (used S3000 relay plate, simply connected up to the original Mégane power feed to the fuel pump)

Obviously the two main ground wires from the ECU loom. These are bolted to the chassis rail on the Mégane. Good strong earth.

And an ignition switched live which powers up the ECU. This then back feeds a signal to the engine control relay, which powers up the ECU properly, and also powers up all the components on the engine. Injectors etc.


Initially, before cranking, it was very happy. Diagnostic plug in allowed control over all components etc. It was like it was gonna work.
But then after cranking it, its like the immo off has forgotten what it needed to do. And then totally stopped doing anything again, like it's never has the emulator fitted to start with.


Even after a proper power down, battery off for a few mins to try and deep cycle everything, it still powers up and behaves like it's fully immobilised like it was before the emulator was fitted.

Frustrating because initially it was as if I were getting somewhere.


So I guess it's either not liked it. I.E, the Sagem ECU just doesn't work like the 172 in having an immo emulator fitted. I mean, I've never spoken to anybody who had ACTUALLY done it. Just lots of people saying it does work.

Or. There's a key signal somehow coming from my key to the ECU. But the only means of that would be via the K-Line. This is the only route from Mégane to ECU that could be contactable to the key.

But I disconnected it ECU end for a final try yesterday and it still behaves like it's not doing anything.

 

[Adey]

Anyway you can confirm you actually have an emulator fitted and they didnt just virginise the ECU. Can you see the ECU has been opened? maybe open it and take a look.

 

[binge]

I spoke to Rob this morning. He's talked me through opening the ECU and getting visual confirmation of the LED signal from the emulator

It's got a Julie emulator fitted, and it's somehow lost its CAN connection. Frustratingly it was good when Rob bench tested it at his shop, and of course it must have been good when I initially connected the ECU to the car because of the full control of components and proper Comms with Delphi.

Just seems the first crank of the key has caused it to shit it's self.

I don't really have a strong knowledge of this, but in my mind, my Mégane key is either somehow sending a code to the ECU and upsetting it.
Or, the S3000 ECU just doesn't 'do' emulating. Could it have a rolling ECU code signal? Like a a Dynamic IP kinda thing which constantly changes?

I've fired a video over to JR. Hopefully they can give me some solid info on what the hell is going on.
If I can't fathom it, then I'll get the boost pipework finished, put the motor back together, and trailer the fucker somewhere.

 

[Adey]

 

[Brigsy]

I dont think the original megane key will be doing anything if the comms wiring has been cut off at the obd, and no rf receiver in the sagem s3000. I think the mk1 meg are a plipper style central locking/immob setup like the later clio 16v.

Theres a forum/contact email for the emulator, might be worth giving them a shout. CARLABIMMO - Support

 

[binge]

JR have onfirmed the flashing led on the emulator isn't how it was when he fitted it. So my cars obviously done something on power up.

I'm popping it back to him at some point to take another look.

Fucking thing French shit.

 

[binge]

 

[Adey]

 

[binge]

I watched that video this morning 'Wrong can connection' whatever that means.

Strange because it 100% worked initially. Or at least something changed because of how it was functioning.

 

[binge]

Not much to update. I figured I would start getting the car 'finished' off, in terms of all the loose ends, like intercooler pipe work, loose wiring etc, so I can get the bumper back on and the headlights back in.
That way, if this ECU doesnt work second time round, I can at least tow it to a tuning shop to leave it with somebody to get running.

One of my friends is big into his Vauxhall VXRs. He's been tuning them for approx 10 years. There isn't much he doesn't know about them.
He's recently built a Corsa C, with the 2.0 CDTi Fiat engine in it out of an Astra. Similar situation to me, nobody is able to emulate the ECU properly to get rid of the push button start and BSI etc.
He ended up wiring up the key components (BSI, Key detector etc), via minimum wiring (4 CAN wires per module, and an ign live / ground) and the ECU accepts the signal, and starts.

I've still got my key card reader, and my UCH, although not much of the wiring loom is left as I've been using it as my wire supply!
Hopefully worst way, the same method could be adopted onto this.

I ordered a couple of boost hoses (Elbows and straights), and used the original Laguna boost hose, to get the hot side of the pipe work plumbed in.
I've just measured everything and ordered correctly sides parts now, so it can be replaced with single lengths of ally and correct angled elbows.
Once they arrive and are fitted, I'll do the same with the cold side, using all the shit I take off the hot side which is currently on there.

Long winded but it's the only way I can avoid buying a dozen bits of pipe work that I am not going to need.

Frustratingly I had to run it round the outside of the chassis rail, and up through the arch. I was hoping I could fit it between the gap down the side of the radiator, but it's a bit too tight.
I could potentially move the rad forward a bit once the intercooler pipe work is all in. Although it wont really make much of a difference in terms of room in the engine bay.

And a very over-engineered intercooler bracket, is now compete, other than a clean up and paint.
It'll double up as a bracket for an undertray I plan to make out of some sheet alloy, which will direct air upwards from under the bumper, into the radiator.

I also pulled the OBD socket back out of the dash, cut the K-line off, and wired a new, independent wire straight from the ECU to the OBD socket, just in case that K-line was tapped into at all for the original 1.6 immobilizer.
I know it's highly unlikely, but I need to be 100% sure next time I plug this ECU into the car that the cause of a none start is NOT due to code clash.
I also snipped the other lines into the OBD socket, as they were for the ABS module and SRS module, both of which are now obsolete as the car has no ABS or Air bags fitted.

So the OBD socket literally has power, earth, K-line, CAN-H and CAN-L, all direct to the S3000 ECU. Absolutely nothing else in that path.

I'm hoping with a re-sync on this emulator, the ECU will work next time. But who knows. We will find out in a week or so when it's done.

 

[binge]

Popped back down to see Rob at JR today with the ECU. Left it with him.
Couple of hours later I got a call to say it's all done.
The emulator code had 'rolled' somehow.

Anyway. He resynced it for me and I collected it.
Come home, plugged it in, didn't bother with the diag computer, just cranked the key.

Had the camera rolling just incase it started. And.....



Well stoked. Literally fired straight up.


Gave it a minute to warm up and circulate the oil then gave it a couple of revs to see how the turbo sounds without the Chinese dump valve it had fitted when it was in the Laguna.





So the list of jobs get shorter.


Massive thanks to Rob at JR tuning. Absolute patience of a saint with me and all my silly questions.

Turn around time was mega too. As was the price.

 

[Adey]

and does it start again a second time.....? awesome find on getting it defeated. I discussed a julie emulator briefly with Scoff for use with a 1.2tce transplant

 

[Neal R19]

Top effort with this, you've turned this around super quick and done a tidy job to boot.

Guess what I'm doing next on the turboshed!

 

[binge]

Yep. It starts over and over.
I'm a little scared to press the central locking though incase something bad happens.

 

[Adey]

awesome news

 

[Brigsy]

Epic update, good to see the emulator works ok.