Mk1 / Ph1 Mégane Cabriolet F4R-t conversion

[binge]

Oh wow, I didn't realize they were subframe mounting engines right up until the Mk2 Clio! Crazy.
Wonder why they are all body mounted now. I'm sure it is a better way of holding an engine still!

Little update, nothing too exciting.
I dug the welder (If you can call it that!) out yesterday, and had a little dabble with this turbo down pipe.
Chopped the flange off the old cat I had, and after about 3 or 4 adjustments to the mandrel bend I had, I managed to get it to sit with a couple of mm clearance from the manifold, and a good 15mm clearance from the brake master cylinder.
It's about as good as it's going to get. Depending on how much head shield I can stuff down there, I'll probably heat wrap the exhaust, and also stick some of that gold reflective tape all over the heat shielding too.
But fingers crossed it should be alright. Neal seems to have had no issues with the exact same set up.


Please excuse the mess. Every time I went to start a weld, this fucking pigeon kept flying in my shed and shitting all over the place!
(Jokes aside, the first few goes, the spot welds were alright. After walking the 180ft from car to shed, and back again 4 times, I gave up trying to weld nice, I only need 2 bits of metal to stick together so I can send it to my pal who's going to do it properly! )

I'm also fortunate enough to have an awesome supplier for all my work stuff, so they gave me a few rads to bring home and trial fit in the car to see which one sits best.
I 'think' this one is for a Mk1 / Ph1 Megane F7R 2.0. But not certain.
The mountings on it are very different to any I've seen. But it's as big as it can go, and it's the thickest of the bunch too. Pipe fittings are in the exact right places, and It's got a hole for a rad switch too. So it'll do.
I've just got a feeling the intercooler that's on it's way is now going to be totally wrong. I was hoping the rad would sit up a little at the bottom so I could pass the boost hoses beneath it. But this rad is a lot taller than the 1.6 rad, so there's simply no room, other than to have super long boost pipes running up infront of either wheel arch. I'll get a better idea once it arrives.
Obviously I've just sat it on the front subframe rail for the picture.
I'll either mount it more vertical by moving the bottom off the subframe and further forward. Or I will run a shorter alternator belt, modify the alternator mount, and pull that right back close to the block, and then bring the top of the rad backwards. This may be the better option for intercooler space.

And I got an oil gauge for my FPR. Cranked it up and the standard Megane fuel pump delivers an easy 6+ bar. So fingers crossed it'll hold a consistent 3.5bar for the engine to run nicely. I'm not really sure about the vac pipe and increasing pressure for boost. I need to learn a little more about how that works to understand if it's worth doing or not. I dont even know if the Laguna had this or just ran a fixed fuel pressure.

 

[DaveL485]

I dont even know if the Laguna had this or just ran a fixed fuel pressure.

My F4RT runs a static pressure, in fact the 197 NA engine and the F4RT conversion use the exact same setup. I just plugged the fuel line into the rail when I turbo-swapped it. IIRC it's 5.5bar on a returnless rail (reg in tank)

 

[Adey]

i thought the 225 was 3 bar and the 250 was 5.5bar?

 

[andybond]

i thought the 225 was 3 bar and the 250 was 5.5bar?

Sounds correct and a different design to boot

 

[Neal R19]

225 is 3.5bar static, with in tank return, straight to the rail.

mk3 is 5.5bar static, with in tank return, then another reg on the rail I think 3bar rising rate non return.

 

[DaveL485]

i thought the 225 was 3 bar and the 250 was 5.5bar?

Sounds a bit low? Bearing in mind running a bar of boost that would effectively be 2 bar fuel pressure at the injector tip. Not sure though just vague info from what I have read online.

 

[Adey]

yeah, exactly why you need silly size 630cc injectors for 270+bhp on them

 

[andybond]

silly size 630cc injectors

Technical

 

[Adey]

Technical

you know what I mean. with a rising rate fuel pressure setup like most turbo cars you could get more hp from the smaller stock injectors. I wonder why renault did deviate from the norm on it, cost? it meets the requirements of the engine in stock trim?

 

[Adey]

630cc injectors on a rising rate setup should be good for 430+bhp

 

[andybond]

I knew exactly what you meant. I just found it funny

I suspect that Renault as ever built the car to a cost. It was cheaper to produce what they had with no return and a static pressure and get the power out of the engine. They didnt envisage people trying to run nearly 1/3 more power out of the same engine when designing it.

 

[andybond]

630cc injectors on a rising rate setup should be good for 430+bhp

Yep, limits are the fuel system that runs out before 350hp.

 

[binge]

Intercooler arrived. I took a gamble on it, won it for £30 on ebay.
It's made by a company called AH Fabrications. I didnt really read the advert, just bought it on the photos. Was expecting a Chinese thing to turn up.
Quick look on the website of the people who made it, their stuff seems to be pretty good, and nothing under a couple of hundred quid.
Probably a little small for the long term use on the Megane, but it'll get me going. I'm not too clued up on what is required as a minimum size intercooler. In my mind, the bigger the cooler / pipe work, the more boost required to fill that void, and the more 'lag' there is?
Probably way off theory! Haha.

Finished off the front pipe. A step down reducer arrived today to join it onto my current middle and rear.
Front pipe I've made is 2.5".
My current middle and rear are brand new (I fitted them late last year), and they are standard items, a sniff over 2" dia. Middle box I've removed, so just running the original rear box.
The pipe work on the Laguna, was actually under 2". Immediately after the flexi, the pipe went into a bit of a bottle neck, which actually fits inside my original 1.6 Megane pipe work. So I'm sure the 2.5" decatted front pipe, and the 2" mid/rear section will work ok.
Heat wrapped to help keep the brake master cylinder cool. And also to hide my ghastly welding! haha

ECU is going to JR Tuning tomorrow for Immo Off. I was all set to use RS Tuning but they are still closed for the lock down, and I am now at a bit of a dead end until I can run this thing. As in, I dont want to start spending money on parts I want, until I know it's going to work with the S3000 ECU de-imobilized.

 

[DaveL485]

In my mind, the bigger the cooler / pipe work, the more boost required to fill that void, and the more 'lag' there is?

Its a common misconception, inlet system volume makes very little difference to lag - you'd have to use something REALLY HUGE to notice a difference. The biggest differences are usually made by flow improvement, like when you get rid of the 21 Turbo top intercooler - that strangles the system a bit because it's flow capability is shite.

 

[Adey]

you should of seen the size of my turbo vs the intercooler on my twingo tce, turbo inlet and outlet were the width of my thumb, intercooler was the height of the bumper. inlet temps were always only a few degrees above ambient

 

[binge]

Ah ok, Hopefully it'll be okay then.

Dropped the ECU off yesterday at JR Tuning. There was a pretty cool Kangoo there with a 172 Turbo in it. Not converted by them though, and the owner (who was there) bought it like it. So I couldn't really pick his brains on it much.
From what it seemed like, it was basically a re-shelled Clio though. Just everything transferred across from the 172, into the Kangoo. With the turbo kit fitted.
It had the Log manifold on it, which was quite good to see, as the brake servo is in the same place on the Kangoo as it is in my Megane. It does give quite a lot more room because of how much lower down the back of the engine it is. Certainly something to think about when I start fitting shiny parts on in the future.

Did a bit of rain-dodging yesterday, and managed to get a few little bits done. It's all the little bits and pieces which take the most time. Making up little brackets etc.

I started mounting the intercooler. made some basic brackets up out of box section which bolt on to the front of the subframe. Will need to some some uprights which bolt to the back of the front cross member to keep it rigid, as it's got a bit of wobble in it at the moment.

I also mounted the rad. Managed to modify some of the old brackets from the Laguna, to avoid drilling extra holes in the Megane shell.

The boost pipe work is going to be interesting. I'm looking at different ways to route it. I'd like it out of sight / OE looking as possible. So would like to avoid having meters and meters of pipe and elbows running all round the engine bay if possible.
I'm either going to try and squeeze the pipe work between the bottom of the rad, and the subframe (Would need to trim the rad plating off the bottom of it, and maybe put a couple of calculated bends in the already bent up subframe cross member.
Or try and squeeze it round either side of the rad.

Either way, I'm hoping to link it up to the two OE Laguna hot and cold boost pipes. Mainly because the hot side fits nicely under the top cover. And the cold side has the sensors in it.

Picked up a little bargain.

I bought a servo vac pipe from a later (MK1 Ph2) Megane, 1.6 K4M, and to my surprise, it was plug and play with the Laguna engine.

Bumper fitted. I had to trim the original rad shroud out of the bottom of the bumper so the cooler could fit up against it.
I'm probably going to build an ally or plastic sort of scoop to sit under the bumper eventually to direct some additional air upwards to the intercooler and rad. But that's just future planning.
Also had to lose the towing eye and it's mounting. So I'll make something else up Probably going to get the threaded hope type, and weld it into the middle of the cross member on a spreader plate. Then drill a 20mm hole in the bumper behind the reg plate.
That way if I never do need a tow, I'll be able to pull the plate off, and screw in a towing eye.

And the replacement engine cover turned up this morning. Needs a very slight trim around the back corner so it sits flush down, as it's currently fouling on the suspension turret. Looks better than the old painted shitter that came with the car.
I'd like to try and source the cold air feed for the turbo, which sits across the top of the engine, behind that oval port at the front left of the cover.
Seems the R26 boys buy them up for their Meganes. The good old Mk1 Laguna Splitter scenario. Can find one on everything BUT a Laguna! haha

 

[DaveL485]

Watching with interest!

 

[binge]

Had a quick half hour before dark.
Fitted the fan up from the original 1.6 rad. I opted for this one over trying to fit the Laguna rad, because there is very little shroud on it. Physical size is much easier to get in the engine bay, and it also runs off a very simple rad mounted temp switch, which conveniently fits straight in the F7R rad I've got in there.
The Laguna rad was some sort of 2 stage ECU controlled unit, which ran for the AC too I guess. Not something I need the complication of.
I've rotated the Megane fan by 90 degrees and bolted it top and bottom on the rad with plastic washers.

Had a little chop about with the coolant hoses, and got them all fitted up.
Few alterations will be required once it's running.

If I get a bit of free time tomorrow, I'm going to fit the front pipe up and connect it up to the Megane middle and rear system, as the reducer pipe has now arrived.
And I'll try to get the brackets for the intercooler finished off. As once those two bits are sorted, I can bolt all the bumper and lights back on, get the car back off the stands, and give it a much needed wash and polish.

 

[binge]

Welded in the reducer to connect the 2.5" front pipe to the rest of the Megane exhaust. And luckily had some 2" stainless RST in the shed because the middle pipe with the flexi cut out was not long enough to reach the now finished front pipe.
Last year when fitting the middle and rear to the Megane, I sleeved out the middle box for ground clearance, so I only had to chop it back off at the start of that sleeve, and replace that first part of the middle section.
Worked quite well too because it helped get the angling to the system through the exhaust tunnel a little more central.

Hopefully the boost hoses I've got on order will arrive this week, as once they are fitted on, the only thing (I think) that I am waiting on, is the ECU. Which should be ready some thing this week or next. And then fingers crossed, it'll prime the fuel pump and fire on the turn of the key.

I've started lining the firewall with some heat shielding. I need to finish securing it all. (Probably a MUCH easier job to do with the engine out!), and then I've got some of that aluminium heat reflective tape to coat it in.
If those 3 methods of heat protection arent enough to keep the brake MC cool enough, then there's nothing else I can do! haha
Other than maybe bonnet risers (CHAV!), and a scoop / some ducting to pull cold air in around the back of the engine.

Now I do know, that the Laguna F4RT and the VelSatis, had the different engine top covers on them to the R26 / 225 engines. And it's because of the different top hose from the turbo, and also to house the cold air feed which runs along side it. Like this:

Unfortunately mine is missing, and it seems that way on a lot of Lagunas. The R26 boys seem to be buying them up. Haha!
So I'm either going to try and source one, or possibly make something up from the spare heat shielding I've got. I don't imagine it'll do loads, but it's one extra little bit of cooling around the front pipe, and could be the difference between boiled brake fluid and not!


Positioning of this, is the work of the devil.
Especially with my big hands, but short fingers! One of the bolts was an utter swine to get out and back in.
But I swapped it over yesterday. Probably a good thing too as the diaphragm in the original recirc was failing.
Yes, I want it to make chavey noises when I lift off!

 

[Neal R19]

Why are you teeing vacuum off to the FPR? The Laguna ran static pressure and will be mapped as such on the original ECU you'll be using