5 GT Turbo Lotus to renault 5 turbo

[roseengineering]

Hi all, wonder if anyone can help me.
I'm in the middle of putting a fwd renault 5 turbo, with a espace gearbox in my lotus europa. The problem is the adaption of the bellhousing to engine.
I can make an adaptor plate, but the bellhousing on a espace is as big as the engine. Does anyone know of a smaller bellhousing that i can cut about and where i can get one
Reno fuego or 18 perhaps. Started to make steel bellhousing but a lot of work.
Thanks paul

 

[roseengineering]

Hi richard,
Very intrested indeed. The bellhousing has been the biggest problem. Tried to find a fuego bellhousing for my espace gearbox, but no joy. So making a plate for the espace bellhousing and hopefully find a fuego at a latter date and trim adaptor plate down.

 

[roseengineering]

Are you using the standard Europa Rear suspension ? if so the Espace box is not suitable without internal modification. The original Lotus box had a few extras to make it take the suspension loads through it. Also the gearchange will need lots of work. You would be far better using a Fuego or 18 Turbo engine and gearbox, fits straight on to the original engine mounts. I have built 2 cars like this in the past both with circa 180 BHP very easily, straight through exhaust. I run a Lotus restoration company so very knowledgeable in Europa.

Hi andy, do you know where I can get a 18 or Fuego bellhousing or box.rgds Paul

 

[Richard Hill]

Hi Paul,

The issues with my installation included the starter motor, which made using the k-series bellhousing the easiest option for me. I'm not really familiar with the 5-turbo engine so maybe my advice there is less useful. There were many engine ancilliaries that ended up very adjacent to the chassis and I used a dummy plywood chassis Y-section to assess the fit before final installation. The engine needed a very small inclination to the vertical which is obviously dictated by the adaptor plate hole positions.

Some of the other problems were easier to resolve.

Gearbox output shafts no longer take the load from the suspension, a 'turnbuckle' micro-adjustable upper link does that job and the drive shaft is free to move in/out. These movements are very minimal because the rose joints in the link are positioned to replicate the drive shaft suspension pivot points and hence locus of motion. The rose joints attach to the adaptor plate at the inboard end, and to a bracket secured to the trailing arm by the 4 bolts attaching it to the uprights which have been helicoiled... because 54 year old threads... This increases the rear track by 20mm but can easily be compensated for in the suspension shimming and by trimming the rear wheel arch flange. The NG3 seals that run onto the output shaft are retained, and a useful bonus is that they don't leak!

Made a similar design but bespoke inner lower radius arm attachment bracket, easy enough

The rear gearbox mount is also bespoke and harks back to the 1980s with Ford Cortina engine mount rubbers

The gearshift needed painstaking adjustment but all do-able with a unique rear tube, brackets etc

I made a little gearbox from R/C model car gears to correct the speedo, guess a specialist could recalibrate the speedo head unit..?

The underlying reason for using the -99 box was to make use of a 25mph/1000rpm top gear, it being from diesel Espace donor. Torque from the vvc copes easily.

Hope this helps, not a 5 minute job, I spent about 4 months on it, off and on. Well worth the effort though in terms of performance, and also economy greatly improved.

Richard

 

[Steve Swan]

From your Bellhousing picture it looks like a UN 1 box you are using. There are over 20 variants of these boxes and the only Renault application of this mixture is the Renault 5 turbo and turbo 2, so not an easy find at all.

 

[roseengineering]

Hi steve, it's a ng3 from a espace, the problem is it's bigger than the engine, a 1400 cast block 5. Was hoping to swap bellhousing front a 18 or Fuego. Which I believe is smaller. Paul

 

[Steve Swan]

Just had another look at the inner bolt pattern. I might have a R 17 Bellhousing. I'll have a look tomorrow, but I had to throw stuff away when I downsized last year.

 

[roseengineering]

Just had another look at the inner bolt pattern. I might have a R 17 Bellhousing. I'll have a look tomorrow, but I had to throw stuff away when I downsized last year.

Thanks, have the bellhousing off will take a picture from the back. The clutch was cable and will now be hydraulic. Release bearing carrier made to fit sleeve. 200mm clutch and turbo 5 flywheel. Hope it all works.

 

[Steve Swan]

Yep. That's a family 2 bolt pattern. A thought occurs. I am positive I have a MK1 5 G bellhousing. This should fit your gearbox and engine, big enough to take the 200clutch and the release mech

 

[roseengineering]

Yep. That's a family 2 bolt pattern. A thought occurs. I am positive I have a MK1 5 G bellhousing. This should fit your gearbox and engine, big enough to take the 200clutch and the release mech

Sounds very interesting

 

[roseengineering]

The engine is a fwd 5 turbo.

 

[Steve Swan]

It will still work, the blocks are the same, only thing is that the motor will sit upright and the 5Gtt is on a slant, work required on the inlet manifold and carb, if you're using it.

 

[roseengineering]

It will still work, the blocks are the same, only thing is that the motor will sit upright and the 5Gtt is on a slant, work required on the inlet manifold and carb, if you're using it.

Fuel injected with a megasquirt ecu

 

[roseengineering]

Fuel injected with a megasquirt ecu

Only thinking, the ng3 espace box has a needle beating in the bellhousing. ?

 

[Steve Swan]

2 options there, Either A mod the non needle bellhousing to carry the needle bearing and spout, or B Use an older style Input shaft which is longer and locates in the rear of the crankshaft at the spigot bearing.
This then throws the issue of spigot bearing size R5 is small, the bigger engines were also bigger spigots.
If there's a bit of meat around the spigot on the 5 bellhousing Boring it to accomodate the input shaft spout, would probably be easiest.

 

[roseengineering]

2 options there, Either A mod the non needle bellhousing to carry the needle bearing and spout, or B Use an older style Input shaft which is longer and locates in the rear of the crankshaft at the spigot bearing.
This then throws the issue of spigot bearing size R5 is small, the bigger engines were also bigger spigots.
If there's a bit of meat around the spigot on the 5 bellhousing Boring it to accomodate the input shaft spout, would probably be easiest.

Ok, would you have the 5 bellhousing I can buy.?

 

[Steve Swan]

I'll check this afternoon

 

[Steve Swan]

Found the Bellhousing





Will be a bit of a pain to do ..
Let me know what you think

 

[roseengineering]

Found the Bellhousing
View attachment 220120

View attachment 220121

View attachment 220122
Will be a bit of a pain to do ..
Let me know what you think

Hi steve,
The engine side looks good, not shure about the gearbox side, looks slightly different on the bolt spacing and diff cut outs ?. The 336 renault 16 bellhousing which I have looked the same bolt pattern but didn't line up. So a bit Unsure about that. Next problem is bearing location. I can weld around hole and bore out to fit needle bearing. As you say a lot of if's and buts. So also price and postage is involved as it could all end up in the bin. The clutch arm I could do something with it. Thoughts back to you




Unsure about that. Next problem is bearing location. I can weld around hole and bore out to fit needle bearing. As you say a lot of if's and buts.

 

[Steve Swan]

The Engine side is correct for any 13/1400 block. The top 6 bolts on the bellhousing to gearbox side, plus the shaft centres should align correctly. That leaves the lower half of the bellhousing. This may be slightly different, as basically The 385 (What this is) and 336 will interchange on any family 2 box (330-395)
I keep an NG1/3 input shaft bearing spigot, incase I get asked to do a rebuild on one, as getting them is a bit on and off. Making it fit will be a bit of a faff, building up and machining back, but the good news is that it only carries the radial load of the clutch input shaft, at 90 degrees to the shaft itself. It carries no axial load fore and aft. Happy enough to sell you the bits and if you find it won't work, before you've chopped them up, I'll refund you and you can send it back.

 

[Steve Swan]

Should have said, I think your clutch fork will work with the shaft on this bellhousing as the 385 fork is not wide enough for the bigger release bearing. There's always something....