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5 GT Turbo Lotus to renault 5 turbo

Hi all, wonder if anyone can help me.
I'm in the middle of putting a fwd renault 5 turbo, with a espace gearbox in my lotus europa. The problem is the adaption of the bellhousing to engine.
I can make an adaptor plate, but the bellhousing on a espace is as big as the engine. Does anyone know of a smaller bellhousing that i can cut about and where i can get one
Reno fuego or 18 perhaps. Started to make steel bellhousing but a lot of work.
Thanks paul

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There's plenty of options, but none of the parts are easy to find. 1st thing to clarify is what espace gearbox you have?? I think they had the Ng3 and the small diff UN1 plus the full fat UN1 in the V6 versions. The UN1 isn't really suitable for the Lotus as it's Physically too large. Ironically you can mate a 5 turbo to a UN1, but you need to find a Turbo 1 or T2 bellhousing. Going for the Mid size 395, NG1, NG3 Will require a Renault 12 or 1400 R18 or Fuego bellhousing. Sorry no easy solutions.
 
There's plenty of options, but none of the parts are easy to find. 1st thing to clarify is what espace gearbox you have?? I think they had the Ng3 and the small diff UN1 plus the full fat UN1 in the V6 versions. The UN1 isn't really suitable for the Lotus as it's Physically too large. Ironically you can mate a 5 turbo to a UN1, but you need to find a Turbo 1 or T2 bellhousing. Going for the Mid size 395, NG1, NG3 Will require a Renault 12 or 1400 R18 or Fuego bellhousing. Sorry no easy solutions.
Hi steve
There's plenty of options, but none of the parts are easy to find. 1st thing to clarify is what espace gearbox you have?? I think they had the Ng3 and the small diff UN1 plus the full fat UN1 in the V6 versions. The UN1 isn't really suitable for the Lotus as it's Physically too large. Ironically you can mate a 5 turbo to a UN1, but you need to find a Turbo 1 or T2 bellhousing. Going for the Mid size 395, NG1, NG3 Will require a Renault 12 or 1400 R18 or Fuego bellhousing. Sorry no easy solutions.
Hi steve, thanks for that. The espace was a 2 litre or 2.2. Is that a 1400 r18 or fuego or 2litre. I was thinking of milling off the engine face and weld and dowel a new peice of aluminium and make it fit the 5 turbo. A reno 18/ fuego 200mm clutch fits the turbo flywheel. Just need to find a bellhousing.
 
There's 3 different bellhousings with subgroups within the 3 for clutch arrangement
13/1400 Sierra Cleon fonte block
1600 alloy Cleon A block
2 lite and up for Douvrin and V6
The first mates to all family 2 boxes
The second mates to all family 2 boxes
The third only mates to the big stuff 367,369,UN1
There are oddities like the T1,T2 bellhousing, pretty much that's it.
 
Are you using the standard Europa Rear suspension ? if so the Espace box is not suitable without internal modification. The original Lotus box had a few extras to make it take the suspension loads through it. Also the gearchange will need lots of work. You would be far better using a Fuego or 18 Turbo engine and gearbox, fits straight on to the original engine mounts. I have built 2 cars like this in the past both with circa 180 BHP very easily, straight through exhaust. I run a Lotus restoration company so very knowledgeable in Europa.
 
I am curious to know what the modification to the Lotus box was? The roll pin diameter was increased from 5.5mm to 7 mm , but that's it as far as all the boxes I've had apart over the years. I have upgraded a few and swapped out the Diffs to keep things easy. Richard Winter had a jig for re drilling the inners at 90 degrees to original to change the set up to the more common Renault size. There are 3 sunwheel arrangements to Renault transaxles from early to late, the first 2 being interchange, but the late having the oilseal on the box and not on the inner CV or universal.
 
There are spacers, shims and extra o rings to stop the diff output shafts moving in and out in the diff. This keeps the driveshaft located properly as it's the top wishbone but also stops the diff assembly being shock loaded due to suspension movement. This system won't work with the small size oil seal assembly.
 
I forgot about the spacers...... It's my age! The Shim inside the carrier is common to all Renault models, as is the o rings on the sunwheels, after a certain date. This mod was added to try to stop wicking of oil up the splines causing nasty little oil leaks that cannot be cured. It is a sort of phase 1 output, to phase 2 output improvement. The final incarnation was a much longer Sunwheel and completely different sealing arrangements which do not interchange This is on the very last 1980's 3 number series boxes and the NG series (except the NG5 as it's Renaut)
The spacers carry the camber thrust load from the u/j to the carrier or crownwheel , depending on side. I am guessing they did this rather than make the inner u/j the correct length, as this was a tall order and would not make parts interchangeable if Renault changed the Spec (which they do often)
The only other Europa oddity I have uncovered, and this is a Theory not a Fact, is that on the Lotus version of the 365 (early 12G type) the first 4 gears are as per Renault, but with a standard 0.86 5th. The thing is at the time this happened, the 0.86 5th wasn't standard, it was a special. This may be why the boxes I have done had Hewland Manufacture 5th gears with the flying H on them, but were otherwise Renault.
I never understood why they went with 4 close gears, then a big jump to 5th in the Europa, but figure it was for a claimed top speed or economy reason. At this time Renault were using 0.93 in the 12G box and 0.91 in the R16 box. After about 1972, the 0.86 becomes the Standard Renault 5th ratio and is found in everything.
I always find production modifications very interesting as they usually allow the early system to be changed to the later system without modifications when replacement time comes along. I know we generally curse car designers, but often they do come up with some very clever adaptations of their own designs.
 
Are you using the standard Europa Rear suspension ? if so the Espace box is not suitable without internal modification. The original Lotus box had a few extras to make it take the suspension loads through it. Also the gearchange will need lots of work. You would be far better using a Fuego or 18 Turbo engine and gearbox, fits straight on to the original engine mounts. I have built 2 cars like this in the past both with circa 180 BHP very easily, straight through exhaust. I run a Lotus restoration company so very knowledgeable in Europa.
I forgot about the spacers...... It's my age! The Shim inside the carrier is common to all Renault models, as is the o rings on the sunwheels, after a certain date. This mod was added to try to stop wicking of oil up the splines causing nasty little oil leaks that cannot be cured. It is a sort of phase 1 output, to phase 2 output improvement. The final incarnation was a much longer Sunwheel and completely different sealing arrangements which do not interchange This is on the very last 1980's 3 number series boxes and the NG series (except the NG5 as it's Renaut)
The spacers carry the camber thrust load from the u/j to the carrier or crownwheel , depending on side. I am guessing they did this rather than make the inner u/j the correct length, as this was a tall order and would not make parts interchangeable if Renault changed the Spec (which they do often)
The only other Europa oddity I have uncovered, and this is a Theory not a Fact, is that on the Lotus version of the 365 (early 12G type) the first 4 gears are as per Renault, but with a standard 0.86 5th. The thing is at the time this happened, the 0.86 5th wasn't standard, it was a special. This may be why the boxes I have done had Hewland Manufacture 5th gears with the flying H on them, but were otherwise Renault.
I never understood why they went with 4 close gears, then a big jump to 5th in the Europa, but figure it was for a claimed top speed or economy reason. At this time Renault were using 0.93 in the 12G box and 0.91 in the R16 box. After about 1972, the 0.86 becomes the Standard Renault 5th ratio and is found in everything.
I always find production modifications very interesting as they usually allow the early system to be changed to the later system without modifications when replacement time comes along. I know we generally curse car designers, but often they do come up with some very clever adaptations of their own designs.
 
Hi andy,
Yes i know about the output shafts.
I'm using banks twinlink conversion and cvs. The hubs have type 1 vw stub shafts and new bearing sizes and new spacers to suit.
The 5 engine i already have and is smaller than the one coming out.
Morse cables for gearchange which I've done before.
As for the bellhousing i was going to machine the face 25mm and dowel/
Weld new plate on to suit 5. Problem is espace bellhousing is so big compared to engine.
Rgds paul
 
Hi steve, the 5 i have is a fwd turbo, so what ever i use has to be made.
I have another espace bellousing to play with, its just big. Started to make a steel bellhousing but getting heavy and did move a bit with welding
 
I forgot about the spacers...... It's my age! The Shim inside the carrier is common to all Renault models, as is the o rings on the sunwheels, after a certain date. This mod was added to try to stop wicking of oil up the splines causing nasty little oil leaks that cannot be cured. It is a sort of phase 1 output, to phase 2 output improvement. The final incarnation was a much longer Sunwheel and completely different sealing arrangements which do not interchange This is on the very last 1980's 3 number series boxes and the NG series (except the NG5 as it's Renaut)
The spacers carry the camber thrust load from the u/j to the carrier or crownwheel , depending on side. I am guessing they did this rather than make the inner u/j the correct length, as this was a tall order and would not make parts interchangeable if Renault changed the Spec (which they do often)
The only other Europa oddity I have uncovered, and this is a Theory not a Fact, is that on the Lotus version of the 365 (early 12G type) the first 4 gears are as per Renault, but with a standard 0.86 5th. The thing is at the time this happened, the 0.86 5th wasn't standard, it was a special. This may be why the boxes I have done had Hewland Manufacture 5th gears with the flying H on them, but were otherwise Renault.
I never understood why they went with 4 close gears, then a big jump to 5th in the Europa, but figure it was for a claimed top speed or economy reason. At this time Renault were using 0.93 in the 12G box and 0.91 in the R16 box. After about 1972, the 0.86 becomes the Standard Renault 5th ratio and is found in everything.
I always find production modifications very interesting as they usually allow the early system to be changed to the later system without modifications when replacement time comes along. I know we generally curse car designers, but often they do come up with some very clever adaptations of their own designs.
The shims on the Europa are fitted outboard of the spacer to remove any play in the top wishbone/driveshaft. Yes all the 5th Gears in the Genuine renault 365 boxes (models 04 and 07) were made by Hewland. Lotus Called it an Overdrive rather than a 5th Gear even though they sold the cars as 5 speed special !!
 
The shims on the Europa are fitted outboard of the spacer to remove any play in the top wishbone/driveshaft. Yes all the 5th Gears in the Genuine renault 365 boxes (models 04 and 07) were made by Hewland. Lotus Called it an Overdrive rather than a 5th Gear even though they sold the cars as 5 speed special !!
It's strange that they broke up a quite nice close ratio set, I suspect it was to do with economy and cruising ability. People tend to write off the 365 box and seem to prefer the later NG stuff which is inferior to the old 3 number boxes for strength and re- buildability.
 
Hi all, wonder if anyone can help me.
I'm in the middle of putting a fwd renault 5 turbo, with a espace gearbox in my lotus europa. The problem is the adaption of the bellhousing to engine.
I can make an adaptor plate, but the bellhousing on a espace is as big as the engine. Does anyone know of a smaller bellhousing that i can cut about and where i can get one
Reno fuego or 18 perhaps. Started to make steel bellhousing but a lot of work.
Thanks paul

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Hi Paul, Came across this topic by accident, and of course some months have passed since the last comment, but I have installed an NG3-99 into my Europa. Briefly, it's mated to an MGF VVC1.8 engine and all the issues discussed in this thread I addressed in my car some 10 years back. For a flavour of the task there are photos in this web address.

Log In The first two are of my re-covered seats, those following are of the installation of the MGF/NG3, up to the photo of a rear disc brake. Thereafter it's the previous Renault engine.

The principal question, bell housing, I addressed by using the MGF unit with an adaptor between it and the main casing of the NG3 ie discarding the NG3 bellhousing. I have access to both a lathe and milling machine, very necessary for a job of this type. I'll leave it there until you come back with questions, it's a long story to tell if nobody is interested.
 
Hi Paul, Came across this topic by accident, and of course some months have passed since the last comment, but I have installed an NG3-99 into my Europa. Briefly, it's mated to an MGF VVC1.8 engine and all the issues discussed in this thread I addressed in my car some 10 years back. For a flavour of the task there are photos in this web address.

Log

In The first two are of my re-covered seats, those following are of the installation of the MGF/NG3, up to the photo of a rear disc brake. Thereafter it's the previous Renault engine.

The principal question, bell housing, I addressed by using the MGF unit with an adaptor between it and the main casing of the NG3 ie discarding the NG3 bellhousing. I have access to both a lathe and milling machine, very necessary for a job of this type. I'll leave it there until you come back with questions, it's a long story to tell if nobody is interested.
 
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