DYNO RUN STD CAR

[Spike]

Hi guys,
went today and got the clio on a dyno to give me a baseline to get the idea of what a std car will give, i don't think this has been done as yet, lots of pub talk about different cars , exhausts and the like, but no real data.
as you will see (pics please james) the car was running very rich above 4000 rpm, this i hope was due to the thermostat deciding to stick open on the run down to the dyno, this could cause the temp to be reported too low so fuel gets richened up to compensate, i took the trouble of recording the live data on a solus scanner whilst on the run this showed an eng temp of between 65-75 degrees c, this is too low and is almost certain to cause richness resulting in the jagged line on the graphs.
its my own car and in standard trim, well serviced with a pipercross panel filter, oil is mobil 1.
max hp as the graph shows is 207 bhp with 197 ft/lb of torque, this of course measured at the back wheels. you can do a run down test to compensate for flywheel hp but i find these are not a reliable test so don,t bother. as a guess i would say the losses in the gearbox are around 15% to 20% so you do the math. i did hear pub talk that there were hardly any losses but if you believe that why does the gearbox oil get hot?
the runs were done at TVR POWER COVENTRY, using a dynojet dyno. the reason for using tvr power was because their dyno uses winpep7 software and is the same software as on the bike dyno i have used at spr racing for many hours. this also is the same as janspeeds dyno where i am having some exhausts made, obviously now i can directly compare my data with theirs, possibly unclouding any issues in the future.
lastly i would like to thank TVR POWER COVENTRY for making me very welcome with tea, etc, and for their very clean workshops and easy profesional aproach with job well done, i would recommend them to any other member.

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[Brett]

248hp at the crank with a 20% trans loss is a good result Spike. Infact 238 isn't that bad either I'd say. Fair play to you mate, sounds like you'll beable to show a clear concerete comparison between set ups. Best of luck with it fella. :approve:

 

[R5turbo2]

What mods you got in mind spike :race:

 

[Spike]

What mods you got in mind spike :race:

first of all the janspeed exhaust that hopefully will get enough buyers, also not forgetting the plenum spacers i had made. (these were removed for the dyno run to get it back as std.)
then the wallet will be empty for a while.

 

[Cold fusion]

Hi Spike,
Transmission losses are nearer to 28% with a syncromesh gearbox the syncro cluster creates more drag. Transmission fluids in modern gearboxes are formulated to reduce shearing drag and tend to maintaine stable operating temperature under heavy load. Wear on the gear train is less than on a non syncr box the non syncro box sapps less power but does not last as many miles. It is a balancing act that the manufacturers have to do to stop warranty claims.

Nigel.

 

[ray]

good going that hes gained 60 horse power by simple maths best mod ever and the cheapest well done spike :race:

 

[ray]

new exhaust plenum spacer stop it running rich induction kit thats another 30 right there cool come on spike whoo hooo

 

[Spike]

new exhaust plenum spacer stop it running rich induction kit thats another 30 right there cool come on spike whoo hooo

NOW NOW CHILDREN, you know its time for bed, no school tomorrow!

 

[Jamesv6]

Tidy place indeed.

 

[ray]

very interesting running rich is this to get over anti knock sensor eec regulations ?

 

[Spike]

very interesting running rich is this to get over anti knock sensor eec regulations ?

funny you mention knock sensor, do you know something i don't ray. looking at the data on the power runs the knock sensor is at the full values whilst the engine is at full load, this retards the ignition timing back to around 16 degrees, why?? this was full of fresh vpower fuel so knock values should be low.
anyone throw any light on this? i need an injection / ecu guru here.
problem is , folk usually ask ME these questions and i havent a clue!

 

[Spike]

Hi Spike,
Transmission losses are nearer to 28% with a syncromesh gearbox the syncro cluster creates more drag. Transmission fluids in modern gearboxes are formulated to reduce shearing drag and tend to maintaine stable operating temperature under heavy load. Wear on the gear train is less than on a non syncr box the non syncro box sapps less power but does not last as many miles. It is a balancing act that the manufacturers have to do to stop warranty claims.

Nigel.

hi nigel, i do feel that 28% is a little much for trans losses on what basically is a front wheel drive transverse car, at this rate what would the losses be if there were a crownwheel and pinion thrown into the mix?
problem being that the losses are exponential with power input so given enough power losses could actually achieve and exeed 28% but i feel we are not at those sort of values.
(simple laymans terms: losses start at zero and go to a point theoretically where the transmission absorbs all of the power being put in it, it will have gone pop though well before this happens).

 

[TRW1]

I'd agree with Spike that 28% is unlikely.
Some good reading here.....

http://www.pumaracing.co.uk/trans.htm

207 atw is about what you might expect from a Mk2, based on previous dyno runs.
Looking at calcualtions from the website above that would suggest a flywheel figure slightly below Renault's quoted figure, whether it's bhp or ps.

Look forward to your results with the mods.....

 

[ray]

very interested in these results and spec sheet

 

[Spike]

What about your results?????

what results tim? the runs are pictured in the first post.

 

[ray]

tims car is having major surgery has been for several years would be nice to see it running one day

 

[Jamesv6]

Must admit I looked at the graphs and thought 207bhp is rather low for a standard car, and I too was waiting for the graphs showing something like 255 or a wee bit more.

Your 255 has a 230 engine in it I presumed.

 

[ray]

spike explain i have been trying to tell members for a long time how poor the performance is but every one keeps trying to massage figures to flatter their egos tims car will be very interesting to watch development wise as it is under a well known tuners wing may be james you could organise a rolling road shoot out at one of this years meetings and once and for all this problem of standard car figures and modifieded cars can be resolved now that would be worth doing one dyno all the modified cars and a couple of box standard mk1 and mk2

 

[Jamesv6]

I only read what's on the forum. I recall the RS Tuning meeting were most MK 2s came out with around 240bhp and after the map it gave 8.4 HP and 8-9 lb/ft more.

Peter may still have the full before / after dyno traces ( not on the forum anymore)

 

[Spike]

Must admit I looked at the graphs and thought 207bhp is rather low for a standard car, and I too was waiting for the graphs showing something like 255 or a wee bit more.

Your 255 has a 230 engine in it I presumed.

James, your having a laff...... as ray has said this is the real world, i did this dyno run to satisfy myself and all the other sceptics / knowalls that think that these cars actually make 255 bhp.
the figures printed are correct for a good std 255 CAR no fogging of figures or bulls**t just real results.
as i said there is a little room for improvement with a change of thermostat to get the eng temp up which will correct the fueling a little, but i'm not gona find 50 hp.
as i have said in the past tuning is a very difficult thing especially if you dont have a starting point, my starting point is 207 bhp and that is that!!
rays suggestion of a dyno shoot out is a good idea, but i can honestly tell you i have seen more miserable faces coming out of the dyno room than going in,
PREPARE TO BE DISSAPOINTED.
this is why bot ray and tim got quite uptight with the comments of is that all it makes, and , how much, 270 bhp don't seem like a lot from 255, but from 207 its lightyears ahead.