21 Turbo Phase 1 sump wanted!!!!!

[12VFuego]

Hi, I am new to this site. In the process of building a 12 Valve fuego that I would like to turbo. I have found a 12v txi engine but cannot fit it in my fuego with the stiffener plate so am trying to get a phase 1 alloy sump as it looks stronger/stiffer than my thin steel fuego one. Never got 21 turbo's here in Australia so I need to find someone that can post one over. Please Help!!!!

 

[DaveL485]

Think I might have one. ?20?

 

[Andyquadra]

the end cap bolts aren't the same, the alloy sump will bolt on but there are some bolt holes that wont line up and they will leak oil out

Andy

 

[DaveL485]

the end cap bolts aren't the same, the alloy sump will bolt on but there are some bolt holes that wont line up and they will leak oil out

Andy

Chemical metal was invented for a reason :becky::becky:

 

[Tony]

Pikey.

Chewing gum or blue tack are much better. lol

 

[12VFuego]

Hi Guys, Thanks for that. I am very interested Dave. Would you be able to post to Sydney Australia and how much?

Maybe I should post in the technical section? But while I have your attention can I ask the following....

There were no Txi models here in Oz but the Txi motor I have acquired i belive came out of a R25. The stiffener/sump is a completely different shape to the Fuego and the R21 from what I can see. I cannot use it in Fuego due to the location of lower crossmember and anti roll bar at the rear of the sump. I have found a diagram (sorry not having much luck uploading it here) that shows a J7R-720 with a stiffener plate and small sump arrangement that looks like the same shape as my Fuego (and R21 I think). I can only presume that this must be the engine fitted to the R21 Txi???
Can any one confirm this or even sell me one??????

The reason I am after this is that I am fitting the Txi motor with a UN1 box to my Fuego but I believe the stiffener plate must have been fitted for a reason by Renault. If I can not satisfy myself that the bottom end will hold together I may stay normally aspirated aroud 150-160hp but if I can get this stiffener plate I will do a sensible turbo mod and aim for the 200bhp mark.

Has anyone had any experience putting much hp through a standard bottom end??

Dave, does the turbo sump give any extra rigidity? The turbo engines obviously ran a fair bit of power without any stiffener plate?

Sorry,I just realised that maybe its the phase 2 sump/plate I am after.........

Any help much appreciated.

 

[-Jo-]

Nothings wrong with the ph1 sumps. The only reason why renault changed it to strengtner plate and small sump was just an extra safety. The first cup cars had oil starvation doing heavy corners, thats solved in the first place with a baffle. Since '89/'90 they change the one piece sump with the strengt. plate and small sump.

 

[12VFuego]

So you think I would be fine with either chasing around 200bhp?? My existing sump gets a few knocks so I guess the later model with metal lower sump may be the better choice as the phase 1's are alloy are they not?

 

[-Jo-]

Power aint no problem, 21 turbo ph1 had 175 bhp and most are modified way over 200 and even 300. There is no pressure in the sump, it just holds the oil. And if you mean knocks as in hit the road...then you gonna have the same problem with ph2 type. Strengtner plate + sump is about the same hight as the one piece alloy sump.

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edit: i'm gonna check the book in a minut for the engine types and sump's

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edit2: the J7R 720 is not listed for the 21

 

[12VFuego]

By strength I was under the impression the stiffener plate was added to help stop twist in the block under load.

yes by knocks I mean hitting the ground. From experience steel sumps tend to dent rather than crack like cast alluminium.

What would be the motor model fitted to a 21 Txi then???

 

[-Jo-]

I'm uploading some scans atm. Dont get me wrong, J7R-J7T-and even J6R are about the same minus some small things.

btw, found the txi, gonna check some things because it aint listed with the UN1 box but with the NG9

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more specific info about the J7R 720 coming up.

 

[12VFuego]

Wow....thanks for that!!1

The last scan looks like the sump I have which is the R25 one I think. It is heaps bigger and won't fit in my fuego so its the other one I need.

Another member just contacted me with a phase 2 set up available so I'm just waiting for some photo confirmation hopefully!

Yeah I think they came with NG9 only but I'm fitting the stonger UN1-seems to all bolt up fine I just have to fit the hydraulic clutch set up!

 

[-Jo-]

This book handles the compleet J7R 720, sorry but in dutch:


engine types and related cars:


J7T and J7R (overall)


You're engine: J7R-720


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J7R (21 turbo ph1)


specific detail (bore, compression, and others)


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if you need anything else, just ask. The bleu covered book details everything about you're type engine but as i said, in dutch.

 

[DaveL485]

Basically, the Turbo engine and UN1 box does go in a Fuego, and I know this cos we got one...

I should have either PH1 or 2 sump in stock. The one in our Fuego is a Ph1.

 

[-Jo-]

is it still alive ?

 

[Andyquadra]

yer

 

[12VFuego]

Awesome!!!!:thumb:

I have seen pics of this car before and wondered what was in it. I have already fitted the 12valve and UN1 to a 'dummy' car and am just looking at setting up the hydraulic clutch. I am trying to get the basic engine/gearbox fitted before I start building the motor. I would love to know some more details about this car Dave!!!!! How did the ratios with the gearbox work out? what clutch did you use?hp?What size wheels? brakes? did you have a speedo working etc etc.......:

 

[DaveL485]

I would love to know some more details about this car Dave!!!!! How did the ratios with the gearbox work out?

Fine. It has NO grip in low gears cos it's too powerful and too light but it'll do close to 150mph at the limiter in top.

what clutch did you use?

Factory R21 Turbo, with a 4-paddle AP Cerametallic friction plate.

hp?

Read 250bhp and 310lb/ft torque but kept spinning the wheels when boosting (it comes in HARD) so we didn't get peak torque properly.
At the time we had five people sat on it, on slicks while on the rollers.

What size wheels?

7J15 Compomotive Motorsports I think with 195/50/15 equiv hardwall cut slicks.

brakes?

Fronts are std Fuego GTX. Gets away with it through being so light (~825kg)
R21 rear disc brake setup. Adjustable brake bias too.

did you have a speedo working etc etc.......:

No. Only a tacho, oil press, water temp on aux gauges.

 

[Andyquadra]

http://s664.photobucket.com/albums/vv3/Andyquadra/Fuego/

more pics of our fuego

Andy

 

[12VFuego]

mmm....... very interesting, I might have to pick your brain a bit as my project develops!!

I have fitted the R25 hubs to mine so it runs 260mm front discs now which seem to stop pretty well.

I realise your fuego is a pretty serious race car and I can see you stripped a heap of weight out. Is there much you did, or can do with suspension/handling especially in the front end? Did you run a LSD in gearbox or was it driveable with the standard diff? Also did you manage to fit the clutch master cylinder on the firewall and is the cluctch you used streetable or more of a race clutch? I don't think I can get any of the turbo clutches here in oz but will ask around.

Also did you run standard turbo pistons or forged ones?

My post was originally to get an idea of whether the stiffener plate (phase 2 sump) would be necessary but it seems you have run some quite serious hp without this, just using the phase 1 sump. Do you think I should go for the stronger Phase 2 set up and is it the same shape so it will clear the fuego lower crossmember?