Stiffer Suspension Top Mounts

[NigeV6]

I've just noticed how much my struts can w**k around - particularly the fronts!
Has anyone replaced the standard (soft!) rubber bushes - where the strut passes through the bodywork - for something more solid or even roller mounts ?
There must be some good alternatives available from the cup racing series?
Where can I buy these parts.
Thanks.

 

[Anonymous]

Finally somebody else noted it.
We tried a few solutions.
The most obvious one is the construction used on the trophy. But in order to use them you need to modify the dome significantly. Also the damper top end is too short for the Trophy option.
We tried a compromise, but the problem is you have no possibility to grease the balljoint (no room for grease connector)
And problems to guarantee the fixing nut will not come off by itself. Again due to the short damper top end.
If I can find the old documentation we made of it, I'll post it. But remember if you use it, it is on your own risk. We didn't continue with it because of the fact stated above.

 

[v6Max]

Maybe worth trying http://www.CompBrake.co.uk they make a range of top mounts for a variety of cars and apparently will do custom work. They're not asking silly money either. I was thinking of doing the same; perhaps look at having eccentric mounts made up - could be useful for those who don't run camber adjustable coilovers but would like to dial in some camber/play with castor.

 

[TRW1]

GDI do one.......James posted a pic somewhere......

 

[Jamesv6]

Found the thread. http://www.v6clio.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5397

 

[® Andy]

Interestingly Renault replaced one of my top mounts under warranty just last week after they picked up excess play in it during my 24k service. The other mount has play in it too, but not enough for them to fix it, or for it to fail the MOT.

Bottom line is that as Harry and Nige noted, this is a known problem.

 

[v6Max]

I've emailed compbrake to get some indication of pricing after noting that average price seems to be around the £50.00 ex VAT each for eccentric mounts in billet aluminium with 20mm id bearings.

 

[NigeV6]

Thanks guys this is really useful stuff!

The GDIdevelopments top mounts look like they would do the job, has anyone fitted a pair?
What are they like for vibration? Any cracking in the shell?

Andy's comment is interesting, as mine goes in for its 24k service next week, and is still under warranty ...! Where did you take it? - they sound switched on.

v6max, I'd by interested in the price if you get a response.

-Nige.

 

[v6Max]

Anybody out there who is thinking about these - don't do anything rash and order them yet. Seems I've located a fabricator whose mounts appear to be very similar to the ones in the picture above and am just waiting confirmation of price. A group by discount is on the cards for this...

Picture below:

 

[Anonymous]

Both solutions on the photos show the same issue we already had. As you can see if they use a baljoint there is no possibillity to grease it from time to time without taking it apart.
The excentric plates aren't my thing because you always change both caster and camber at the same time. Camber is ok, but caster modifications is a tricky one, because it can change grip in cornering like a flipswitch, when increasing steering angle, or when you go the opposite way just introduce massive vibrations in the steeringwheel, which you wouldn't be able to hold on to. Just be carefull with them.

 

[v6Max]

The greasing point is indeed valid the blurb on the site indicates that the bearings use a bronze gauze and PTFE lining so I don't know what impact that would make on the frequency with which one would expect to have to re-apply any lubrication. For example if "bronze gauze" if a euphamism for self lubricating then there may be no issue or if the maintenance schedule is such that you'd be looking at taking it apart once a year then it's not too much trouble,

I agree on the limitations of eccentric top mounts with regards to the two adjustments being linked - it's like so many of these "motorsport" type enhancements that there's the potential to get it very right or very wrong and when the documentation states "installation by professionals is recommended" it's not there for a joke.

 

[v6Max]

I've been quoted 140.00 including VAT per pair for the mounts I showed above. If we can get more of us together the price will probably decrease.

 

[Anonymous]

Even more a reason to stay away from them if they have a ptfe lining, since on a balljoint under this conditions, they would run out very fast. The forces on those items are not in the direction ideal for the joint (axial, in stead of radial) so much limited lifetime.
To be more acurate, in racingcars they use also balljoints, also with ptfe, but they are replaced every 3-5k miles of running, just because they get too much play.
If you can use the normal steel,steel contact ones, you need greasing. But they also last much longer.
Just my thoughts though.

 

[v6Max]

Hmm interesting points.

So let's summarise for a moment:

1) The existing design is not rigid enough
2) Using the Trophy type design is not practical due to the difference in strut tower design
3) Currently proprosed alternatives address the concerns over rigidity but will likely offer shorter lifespan

So it seems that we're stuck between a rock and a hard place. My personal temptation would be to either put up with the existing slop given that the majority of people have not noticed the issue or to buy the alternative design and look to replace the supplied bearing with straight steel/steel and accept an increase in maintenance.

Could your concerns about the short damper top end be reduced by using a nut that can be "staked" (think early 205 hub nuts for example). Looking at the picture of Jame's tops they could be drilled and a split pin used as "insurance".

 

[NigeV6]

HI v6max,

Your price seems more realistic, but your mount looks much smaller? (just going off the size of the nut and the space around it in the picture)
Is the one in the picture actually for a Clio, or just a similar mount?
It looks like both designs incorporate an upper lockring on a threaded main body. Is there anything to locate the mount, i.e. stop the whole thing rotating in the hole!
Also, presumably there is some rubber incorporated between the mount and the (car) shell? - otherwise the vibration will be unaccessible for a road car, and the shell will take a hammering.
I guess I'd rather see one before I commit to buying - but I'm still interested and need to do something.

 

[NigeV6]

PS. My personal opinion (based on a 205 rally car) is that a 'GpA' (rock-)hard rubber version of the standard mount would be the way to go. Less vibration and no bearing maintenance problems.
Anyone in the rubber business!!

 

[NigeV6]

PPS. I have emailed Powerflex about a polyurethane replacement for the rubber part, but they need photos. Unfortunately, I won't be able to sort this until next week so no progress on this till then - unless someone has some photos already?

 

[NigeV6]

Here is the response from Powerflex:

The large washer with the rubber protector in your pictures is to stop the washer knocking on the inner wing. Have you checked for play there with the car jacked up or with it on the ground? On some of the VW Audi range they have a similar top mount and with the car on the ground it looks like the top washer is not tight on the inner wing but there is no play, with the car jacked up the mount under the wing drops down and the top washer stops it falling out of the inner wing and you can feel the play between the top mount and the body but this is how they were designed. I would like to see a car before we decide on what to do as we can make some new top mounts and are always looking for new items to add to our range, is it possible to get one over to Uxbridge at some point.

Does anyone live near Uxbridge?
I live in Cumbria, so it may be some time before I could call in to Powerflex for them to have a look at the front suspension.

 

[Anonymous]

You will also see much difference if you turn the steering wheel from left to right.

I mentioned the trophy solution, so here an image of it.

 

[clarkeeuk99]

My suspension mount on the left side doesn't sit down on the frame like in your pictures. It kind of sits at a bit of an angle.

I did have a laser alignment done a while back. Do you think this might have been it?

Cheers,
Phil.