renault trafic turbo !!!

[catatonic]

please don't laugh folks , but I have an eriba motorhome with a 1995 engine , dating from 1987 ; problem is it lacks oomph , partly because it is low compression , something like 8 to 1 ; if I understand correctly this is achieved by fitting low compression pistons [ is this true on the 21T ?

despite it's age , it has only 60K , so stripping the engine , fitting new liners/pistons etc doesn't sound a good idea ; not certain , but the engine code may be J5R [ the motorhomes and gendarmerie trafics and possibly 4 x 4's had this special engine ]

if I understand correctly , this may be a 21T engine without the turbo ;and a turbo would give more than hc pistons !

so what would be involved in fitting a turbo ? down the scrappie and look for a manifold/turbo off a 21T ~I presume [ or maybe an ad here?], don't know where the oil feed would come from [ different sump?]or what else is needed , could it be done by a basic maintenance man like me?

come on you experts , make my day

 

[la21t]

I reckon ur far better off just fitting a 21Turbo engine under there - its been done to Espaces' Fuegos and now a GTA. You'd have to sort things like exhaust, clutch etc

Reasonable 'year consistent mileage' engines are available for prices as low as ?50.00 from the right person who is sensible enough to know he cant command daft money for one of them. People like me, I mean hahaha

To just fit a turbo to the existing engine would be daft, you've got management issues, inlet, injector, fuelling (all come under the management banner really) I dare say you'd have really fiddly stuff like fuel gauge senders etc etc to contend with.

Ive never been involved in engine transplants bar an Mi16 into a 309GTi once, and even then my involvement was pretty minor, so I may not be the best person to answer, however I do know the aforementioned are things to think about before dusting off that engine crane :wink:

 

[devonquadra]

Hi!
The engine's are similar but different, For one the pistons probably won't be strong enough. There are diferences in the head and valve train too as well as the j5 dosen't have oil spray to the underside of the pistons.
You would probably be better off just fitting a complete j7r 752 engine from a 21 turbo or just fitting a 2.0 or even a 2.2 engine from another renault.
Hope it helps :wink:

 

[catatonic]

thanks folks ; will go away and sulk for a bit!

 

[DaveL485]

As said before, better fitting the engine and ancilliaries from a turbo rather than converting for sure.

For one the oil feed for the turbo is a casting blank on non-turbo lumps.

It is possible to convert but would be cheaper and easier to do the transplant believe it or not.


I'm pretty sure we're right on this cos I co-own the converted Fuego and am currently building (slowly) the conversion in the GTA.....

 

[DaveL485]

....and while I think about it (mentioning the cast-blank oil feed stirred my brain cell), an interesting fact.


When carrying out a 2.2 conversion, did you know that you retain the JR7 block and NOT use the J7T from the 2.2?

Loverly little nugget for y'all :lol: :lol:

 

[catatonic]

well , I am well out of my depth !!

but tks to my technical advisors here , it seems possible that my best strategy is a heart [ sorry engine ] transplant , BUT

reading through various sites on the web it seems that the j5R was only produced in 5 versions , one being the bog standard single choke carb like mine ; but no mention is made of different compression ratios ....... surely the version used in cars didn't have an 8-1 compression ratio , or maybe my [ french] workshop manual is wrong about this ?

but scanning through all the gen , it seems that the 2 litre , when fitted with a twin choke carb [ which was manufactured for cars ] , has almost as much power as the 2.2 [ being really only a 2.16 ] ; so maybe that would give me the extra oomph I need ; ok , not like the turbo you won't let me fit , but a measurable amount

anyone any comments on this ; even sounds within my mechanical ability !!!

and by btw , came across J6R and J7R listed ....what are these?


and in case I am misrepresenting myself here , have to put my hand up and admit that car wise I am an audi quattro type , got a couple of audi 90 5 cyl 20v 's , same generation as the 21T , sit in the barn with my volvo 240 , mk3 landie , 2T trailer , double axle caravan , and 2 old motorbikes ; if I sold the lot could probably raise enough to buy a good 21T !!!!
the eriba , being more valuable , has it's own garage !!!

 

[DaveL485]

A Carb'd lump eh?

Well, more power.....the options are....

Take the head off and skim it to raise the compression

(The above) and fit a more agressive camshaft

Convert to EFI with scrap yard bits from a later model 21.

Convert to EFI-Turbo with a transplanted 21T lump.



My Mum and Dad had a LWB Renault Master camper conversion with the single choke carb J-Series.....if it had been in better nick I had sized up a 2.0Turbo conversion for it :shock:

 

[catatonic]

ok , decision made ; typical british compromise taking account of financial and skill limitations ......cylinder head transplant ! ......with almost zero oil consumption on semi synthetic [ no top up between changes ] and clean exhaust , the bottom end is in good shape ; so a head + carb off a twin choke engine , run it through the local cyl head specialist and bolt it on

so the treasure hunt begins ! any ideas how to identify the correct head , I read that the heads on J5R , J6R, J7R , J6T and J7T are identical , the bigger engines just being stroked to make them undersquare ; if sourcing a head proves expensive I suppose that I could just lift the existing head , and have it refurbed [ presuming that the carb transplant is just a bolt on straight fitment ] ; another point is that I am a little uncertain as to valve seat quality , these started out as leaded engines and although the seats are supposed to be hardened they are not of the highest quality , and I certainly have some degree of valve seat regression ; were there any changes in later production? and with regard to daveL's idea of a skim , my workshop manual said that this must not be done ....is this reality?

looking forward to a 20% power increase ; yes , I know 20% of nothing is still nothing but ........

 

[DaveL485]

The heads can be skimmed.....there is even a marker cast into the surface so you don't overskim. 8 thou is the max I do on a Turbo but if I were playing NA i'd probably go 10thou and overtighten the head bolts a bit lol
If you get a J7R head these will run on any fuel, definately.

Check out the shape of your pistons when you get the head off, domed, flat or recessed. Be interested to know.

 

[catatonic]

thanks for that dave

question is , how do I identify a J7R head [ or any other come to that !]
I suspect that all the later engines are injection , will the carb inlet manifold still bolt straight on ?

won't be doing anything until next year , off snowbirding next week , but hoping to scour the spanish scrappies on route

btw dave , my granny used to rap my knuckles and tell me it is definitely I , lol

 

[catatonic]

voila ; following the J7R info I came across the renault alphanumeric [ in wikipedia !!]
as suspected , this is an injection engine , but the same head with twin choke was fitted as standard on the J6R [1995 ] and the J6 T [2165 ] , so ~I might find one of these engines and be able to acquire the head/manifold/carb complete [ if I knew how to identify the engine !]

anyone know where this might be available cheap ?

 

[DaveL485]

The engine ID tag is on the exhaust side of the block, just under the thermostat housing. It'll read J7R or J6R or whatever and have a fab number on it too. It looks a bit like a VIN plate but for the engine.


You SURE you dont wanna put a 2.0 Turbo EFi in there? :lol: :twisted:

 

[catatonic]

surprised I had never noticed that dave ; tks again , there it was !

J5R A716 it said , which I presume is an engine /gearbox combo

off to search the scrappies!

 

[DaveL485]

Nope, the gearbox has its own tag, probably an NG- series. The Turbo has a UN1 type 13 transmission mated to a J7R 752 or J7R 756. That plate is just for the engine.

The real geekio to speak to is moggy, he's a walking theosaurus of codes and designations......

 

[catatonic]

aha dave ; so what does the suffix ,mean ? does a list exist ? I would have guessed that it referred to external components , but is that correct ?
do I need to look with an engine with the same number

and you are 100% correct , would have loved the 2.0 turbo , but beggars can't be choosers!

 

[DaveL485]

LOL

I dont know the specifics of the codes mate. They may work in a similar way to the oval plates having a preset designation for the letters and numbers, they may not as the J-series was used in other marques too.

Where's Moggy when you need him? :lol:

 

[devonquadra]

Ok, The top line left to right:
The first 3 digits at the top are the engine type,
The middle digit is the homologation letter,
The next 1 digit is the RNUR identity,
The next 2 are the engine suffix.

Bottom line left to right:
The first digit is the factory of assembly code,
all the rest on this line is the fabrication number.

Hope it helps?

 

[catatonic]

thanks for that ; more progress ......but in my ignorance I don't know what a RNUR number , although a lot of them are 7 I notice ; and what do the suffixes indicate , ancillaries ?

 

[DaveL485]

You know what? I dont think it matters. As long as its a J-series you can pretty much use any head you want, even down to putting a 12 valve NA head on a turbo bottom end and strapping a T4 to it.

Tell you what, why dont you get a 12v head and run it on throttle bodies? :lol: