5 GT Turbo Renault 5 1700cc kit

[redvassilis]

Hallo everybody. I have a Renault 5 gt and I'd like to upgrade the engine. Is there anyone here who has tried and has experience with this kit Renault 5 gt turbo 80mm pistons and liners

 

[Adey]

Not many that I know of. Salv Sacco has built some bigger engines, @sparkie @Wheelers Workshop @Turbell @Steve Swan may be able to help. You will need a crank in there too plus a fair few other bits for it to work.

What is it you are wanting to gain?

 

[sparkie]

You'll have to ask yourself, how much power do you want? Without messing with the fuel delivery system, the solex 32 dis will supply up to about 230bhp safely. If you're going EFI, then the 1397cc is plenty tough enough to get higher bhp figures. The next weakest link will be your gearbox I suspect.

 

[redvassilis]

Not many that I know of. Salv Sacco has built some bigger engines, @sparkie @Wheelers Workshop @Turbell @Steve Swan may be able to help. You will need a crank in there too plus a fair few other bits for it to work.

What is it you are wanting to gain?

I talked with them and told me what I need ,crankshaft camshaft rods etc.My expectation is well above 250hp

 

[Steve Swan]

Stroking the motor with the 84mm crank works well with forced induction as the rpm limit will not be as high as an atmo. That said the block and standard crank is good if you go to maximum bore which will give you 1550cc . You can mix and match to get a long rod 1550 if you want. The good thing about going big is that you don't have to use as much boost to get the power, so the service life is longer. The head is the limiting factor. There's only so much power you can use with fwd. As always it depends on the depth of your pockets and the length of your arms. What material are the liners in the kit you have shown? They will be very thin on the liner base, which won't like boost at all. Salv's liners are steel, which has far greater strength than iron or even ductile iron. Top quality engines always need top quality materials.

 

[redvassilis]

Stroking the motor with the 84mm crank works well with forced induction as the rpm limit will not be as high as an atmo. That said the block and standard crank is good if you go to maximum bore which will give you 1550cc . You can mix and match to get a long rod 1550 if you want. The good thing about going big is that you don't have to use as much boost to get the power, so the service life is longer. The head is the limiting factor. There's only so much power you can use with fwd. As always it depends on the depth of your pockets and the length of your arms. What material are the liners in the kit you have shown? They will be very thin on the liner base, which won't like boost at all. Salv's liners are steel, which has far greater strength than iron or even ductile iron. Top quality engines always need top quality materials.

Ductile iron. So if I stay standard what should I do to reach 200hp? Bigger turbo and correctly worked carb?

 

[redvassilis]

You'll have to ask yourself, how much power do you want? Without messing with the fuel delivery system, the solex 32 dis will supply up to about 230bhp safely. If you're going EFI, then the 1397cc is plenty tough enough to get higher bhp figures. The next weakest link will be your gearbox I suspect.

And how can I get 230bhp safely?

 

[Clarkey]

As @sparkie said, your gearbox won’t like the extra torque..

 

[sparkie]

And how can I get 230bhp safely?

Most people used to run a 3 bar fuel pump, uprated intercooler, uprated clutch, t28/25 turbo ( although newer frames are more efficient ) larger bore exhaust, elbow and downpipe. Uprated camshaft and around 20psi on a standard head.

 

[redvassilis]

As @sparkie said, your gearbox won’t like the extra torque..

I've red about 5s over 200hp without gearbox problems

 

[Adey]

I've red about 5s over 200hp without gearbox problems

Torque and HP are 2 different things

 

[redvassilis]

Torque and HP are 2 different things

So what is your consideration? Should I upgrade the gearbox also?

 

[Clarkey]

So what is your consideration? Should I upgrade the gearbox also?

Depends on your power ?

If you stay around 230 bhp gearbox will be fine.

 

[sparkie]

If you run 13 inch wheels, you'll spend so much time wheel spinning, the gearbox won't see any real load.

 

[Brigsy]

As above wouldnt bother with stroker kit/increasing cc as it will make more torque which the transmission does not handle well.

Keep it 1397cc or there abouts. Stock pistons and liners are ok for 230hp.

Efi conversion should be top of your list for mods. Get the crap carburettor gone.

 

[Steve Swan]

The most important Question to be answered first is. What is the intended use for the vehicle? Answer that and everything that needs to be done will form itself into an orderly queue.

 

[redvassilis]

The most important Question to be answered first is. What is the intended use for the vehicle? Answer that and everything that needs to be done will form itself into an orderly queue.

Very diplomatic answer...I want a really fast hot hatch from the past. Street legal, not for track days. I want to feel a kid's enthusiasm when spinning wheels with forth gear

 

[Steve Swan]

Nothing wrong with just wanting to be a bit of a Hooligan. This means that you do not have to think about class limits, performance multipliers, or anything that may be important considerations if you want to compete and perhaps be competitive.
If your motor is an unknown then you will have to start at the beginning. I think the full bore and stroke job is probably a huge chunk of money to spend, to keep that cylinder head, but I think that boring it to 80.5 to give 1550cc is worthwhile if you are going to have to buy the bits anyway. The parts in the link wont work on their own, they are meant to work in conjunction with the 84mm stroke crank. The Gudgeon pin to crown is about 3.5mm less to allow for the greater stroke.
There was someone on here recently who had a 1550 with std turbo and carb, who had been to the rolling road for a check and had nearly 190 bhp, he was asking about next steps, but I never saw any more updates on this.
Power and torque go hand in hand more of one is more of the other, the bigger motor will have more lower down and be better (less of a step) as it starts to boost.
Renault themselves used the 84mm crank in the maxi 5 and kept the bores standard to keep the liners as thick as possible. This was over 40 years ago and they were running 3 bar of boost and water injection. Renault themselves never pursued the 84mm crank in Cleon Fonte applications but Dacia did They produced a 1500 Cleon motor in production which was the original source of the cranks.
There have been massive improvements in Turbocharging and engine control in the last 40 years, but I still feel that by going bigger you can run less boost to get the same output the smaller engine has to run more boost to make. More boost= more BMEP, the force trying to tear your engine apart which is not always directly proportional to shaft horsepower. Motorcycles are a classic case in point. They have much lower BMEP than car engines and make their power by revving to 16-18000 rpm. Not practical here, but you get the point.
There is a lot going on here, it's not just a case of bolting these bits together and away you go. if it were everybody would do it.....

 

[redvassilis]

Nothing wrong with just wanting to be a bit of a Hooligan. This means that you do not have to think about class limits, performance multipliers, or anything that may be important considerations if you want to compete and perhaps be competitive.
If your motor is an unknown then you will have to start at the beginning. I think the full bore and stroke job is probably a huge chunk of money to spend, to keep that cylinder head, but I think that boring it to 80.5 to give 1550cc is worthwhile if you are going to have to buy the bits anyway. The parts in the link wont work on their own, they are meant to work in conjunction with the 84mm stroke crank. The Gudgeon pin to crown is about 3.5mm less to allow for the greater stroke.
There was someone on here recently who had a 1550 with std turbo and carb, who had been to the rolling road for a check and had nearly 190 bhp, he was asking about next steps, but I never saw any more updates on this.
Power and torque go hand in hand more of one is more of the other, the bigger motor will have more lower down and be better (less of a step) as it starts to boost.
Renault themselves used the 84mm crank in the maxi 5 and kept the bores standard to keep the liners as thick as possible. This was over 40 years ago and they were running 3 bar of boost and water injection. Renault themselves never pursued the 84mm crank in Cleon Fonte applications but Dacia did They produced a 1500 Cleon motor in production which was the original source of the cranks.
There have been massive improvements in Turbocharging and engine control in the last 40 years, but I still feel that by going bigger you can run less boost to get the same output the smaller engine has to run more boost to make. More boost= more BMEP, the force trying to tear your engine apart which is not always directly proportional to shaft horsepower. Motorcycles are a classic case in point. They have much lower BMEP than car engines and make their power by revving to 16-18000 rpm. Not practical here, but you get the point.
There is a lot going on here, it's not just a case of bolting these bits together and away you go. if it were everybody would do it.....

Thank you Steve!

 

[DrKd]

Make sure you buy a set of good rods, machine the domes off the pistons, and modify the sump to accommodate the stroke.