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Re: Post 360 spin and impact advice
- Thread starter SIMDOG123
- Start date
What does annoy me about the Vee, and this was why I was so annoyed when it happened to me, is that you can be driving the car quite carefully - fully aware of the need to be careful and it can still bite your arse ... OK it can be fun if you are able to control it and the more it happens the less of an issue it becomes ...
In the dry when your pushing the car you can take the responsibility and make your choice and relish in the grip, but when it just goes for no 'apparent' reason in the wet it can be a bit frustrating ... The interesting thing for me is that most notable accidents seem to be low speed, roundabouts ...
This may also suggest the gearing is too low for the engine torque to prevent the wheelspin and loss of grip in these situations. I guess lateral grip is the key factor for Vee rear tyres and am not sure I have seen too much written about that ...
Martin
In the dry when your pushing the car you can take the responsibility and make your choice and relish in the grip, but when it just goes for no 'apparent' reason in the wet it can be a bit frustrating ... The interesting thing for me is that most notable accidents seem to be low speed, roundabouts ...
This may also suggest the gearing is too low for the engine torque to prevent the wheelspin and loss of grip in these situations. I guess lateral grip is the key factor for Vee rear tyres and am not sure I have seen too much written about that ...
Martin
k1ano":1t3uj9jd said:
Roundabouts are always going to be the easiest place for a vee to to let go. Mainly because alot of weight transfer going from left to right, front to back all in a very short distance. As for the low speed, I do personaly think that is down to the tyre in some way. Thats just my opinion though.
Gearing wise, making the gearing much longer would probably make it worse. It should be the drivers right foot that dictates how much torque/power goes to the rear wheels. My car spun up in a straight line below 2500rpm in third at full throttle a few months back (was on a VERY greasy bit of road) and it literaly had its ass in one lane and the front in the other. Because the revs picked up so slowly I never really scenced the wheels spining until i was sideways. If that happened on a bend it would be disasterous.
Your last pont is bang on the money. Would be interesting to see what differance a softer rear anti roll bar would make in the wet though..
I agree tyres and probably particularly the shoulder are probably key here. I seem to remember reading that the Toyo Proxy T1R had a harder tyre compound on the shoulder to compensate for scrubbing (by retaining a sharper edge on the shoulder) which previously caused them to oversteer more when they were worn. I experienced this situation on my GT4 which has a tendancy to understeer more when the tyre shoulders are worn.
Interesting also Brett that the Vee is of course fly-by-wire and there is some really good reading on how the ECU uses the throttle pedal input as a 'request for torque' parameter for the ECU. I think I posted some technical details somewhere I found ... So in a way the ECU is deciding how much engine torque to deliver and when rather than the driver ... I did this research as I always felt my Vee seemed to 'anticipate' what I was going to do with the throttle before I did it i.e. it seemed to want to gallop away on the slightest throttle depression. Maybe this is the issue with some cars ???? Maybe it is because I am used to turbo lag and put my foot down in anticipation of what I want the car to do ...
Martin
Interesting also Brett that the Vee is of course fly-by-wire and there is some really good reading on how the ECU uses the throttle pedal input as a 'request for torque' parameter for the ECU. I think I posted some technical details somewhere I found ... So in a way the ECU is deciding how much engine torque to deliver and when rather than the driver ... I did this research as I always felt my Vee seemed to 'anticipate' what I was going to do with the throttle before I did it i.e. it seemed to want to gallop away on the slightest throttle depression. Maybe this is the issue with some cars ???? Maybe it is because I am used to turbo lag and put my foot down in anticipation of what I want the car to do ...
Martin
k1ano":365rgwu3 said:
I know what you mean but the fly-by-wire does still rely on the drivers input to know what output the engine needs i.e it won't back itself off. Thats what modern traction control does. The main reason Reno and other manufatures use fly-by-wire is to gain better responce and its easier to use with other software such as cruise control and again traction control.
I think your just a clumbsy driver who has grown used to 1990's 4wd system and a little bit of lag :wink: [smilie=icon_blackeye.gif]
I also have lost rear grip at low speed on roundabout and can confirm it was damp and diesel spillage on road after inspection.Roundabout off industrial estate and use it every night/early morning with no problems 99.9% of the time.Problem caused by rare mix of over filled diesel tank and HGV driver blatting round the roundabout then wet conditions.Personally i think any tyre can fall foul of this combination and lose traction.
Kevin I have a set of seat OEM skins which belong to Jainy which were surplus to requirements when I fitted her Recaros. As I used the OEM subframes I simply kept the skins and air-bags etc. I am sure she would be interested in making a few bob if it helped you both out ...
Martin
Martin
In answer to your PM Kevin ...
I believe all Mk2 seats are the same grey leather/alcantara trim - apart from the full leather option seats.
I would also say the seat back skin can be replaced separately to the base skin. The seat back itself bolts onto the subframe base from what I can remember. It looks to me as if the skin simply slides over the frame and is fastened with various clips and trim fastenings.
As you know I have the skins available ... Renault are bound to say the skin replacement is harder as the seat replacement is a simple swap job however I am sure they should be tooled up to replace a seat skin as air-bags going off is quite likely and I am sure they don't replace the seat each time ... Shame you can't do it DIY as you always pay through the nose with dealer work.
All depends on whether you can get a full seat for a good price. Anyway you have the skin option ...
Martin
I believe all Mk2 seats are the same grey leather/alcantara trim - apart from the full leather option seats.
I would also say the seat back skin can be replaced separately to the base skin. The seat back itself bolts onto the subframe base from what I can remember. It looks to me as if the skin simply slides over the frame and is fastened with various clips and trim fastenings.
As you know I have the skins available ... Renault are bound to say the skin replacement is harder as the seat replacement is a simple swap job however I am sure they should be tooled up to replace a seat skin as air-bags going off is quite likely and I am sure they don't replace the seat each time ... Shame you can't do it DIY as you always pay through the nose with dealer work.
All depends on whether you can get a full seat for a good price. Anyway you have the skin option ...
Martin
