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5 GT Turbo R5 GTT Power Steering conversion

r5gordini

Well-Known Member
Hi All,
I have embarked on the above project! To fit power steering to my GTT. I have seen this post:
http://turborenault.co.uk/threads/39/page-6#post-8111
But I have questions for anyone that has done this before...
I have bought a Clio Mk I rack...
  1. Did you have to change the rear engine mount as per the above thread?
  2. Did you have to change the steering shaft?
  3. The Clio track rod ends are different. The R5 ones are not compatible (internal vs external threads). OK to fit Clio ones?
I think the answers to all questions is yes. Here's the drawing of the Clio steering shaft:
Clio steering shaft.webp
Here's the R5 shaft:

GTT steering shaft.webp

I have the Clio rack all ready to bolt up (once I have removed the seized track rod ends - grr)! I need to get some pipes made up. Pirtek should do it?? Or Hydraquip? I like the way it was done above - where a fitting was fitted to the bulkhead panel to pass the pipes through but I'm going to have to do it the other side - driver's side. I will probably punch holes through the bulkhead panel.
More photos later...
Andrew
 
Great progress and invaluable pics for others to follow. I always found the companies like Pirtek can be great for this sort of thing. Making little adapters to extend bits here and there.
 
Great progress and invaluable pics for others to follow. I always found the companies like Pirtek can be great for this sort of thing. Making little adapters to extend bits here and there.
They're handy for emergencies, but beware their fittings are very industrial (not pretty or anodised) and they are VERY expensive compared to internet prices. Try and plan ahead and you'll save a fortune!
 
Will the braided hose handle the pressure?? from memory pas is something ridiculous like 2000psi? I tried to use high pressure reinforced oil hose to repair a rotted hard line many years ago and it promptly went boom under pressure
 
Will the braided hose handle the pressure?? from memory pas is something ridiculous like 2000psi? I tried to use high pressure reinforced oil hose to repair a rotted hard line many years ago and it promptly went boom under pressure
On most cars (inc the 21) the hard line changes to rubber pipe as it routes around the engine bay and teflon line is usually tougher than that. With a MOP of 2500psi i'd imagine it will suffice, thats more than found in braking systems let alone power steering.

Hose Size: -6 AN
Hose Length : 1m
Teflon® Lined: YES
Outer Material: Braided stainless steel (304)
Hose Color: Natural
Hose Inside Diameter (in:cm)5/16” : 8.0mm
Hose Outside Diameter (in): 0.47 in. : 11.0mm
Maximum Operating Pressure (psi): 2,500 psi
Burst Pressure Min (psi): 6,000 psi

Bend Radius Min (in) 3.5”


(EDIT: Thats the specs on the Torques pipe, which I assume is what he has used)
 
Might be ok then if its rated to that pressure. I know most pas have a flexible hose at some point but mostly hard pipe minimal amounts of flexible hose.
 
They're handy for emergencies, but beware their fittings are very industrial (not pretty or anodised) and they are VERY expensive compared to internet prices. Try and plan ahead and you'll save a fortune!

I agree Dave, but for one off small adapters that they can knock out in short order it's quite often the easiest solution.

I completely agree that they are not they way to go if you want them to do the complete system. I would much prefer the anodized beauty of the AN range of hose solutions.
 
Time for an update! After struggling to get mounting bushes for the Mk 1 Clio, I decided to see if I could fit a later rack. So I bought a 182 rack on eBay. They are so cheap! Should be a quicker ratio than the standard Clio one I had before, which will be a bonus!
First problem... The mounting brackets are stepped, whereas the 5 subframe isn't.
I was about to grind the step off then I realised that the larger end is the same depth as the Mk 1 one, so I will space the other end out a bit. I intend to make or get a proper spacer but until then I will use washers!
Stepped bracket:
IMAG0950.webp
Alongside the Mk 1 bracket for comparison:
IMAG0951.webp
With washers:
IMAG0953.webp
Four washers is exactly right!


Second problem... The inner track rod ends are too long. Original GTT rack is the one at the top of the photo:
IMAG0942.webp
So I searched eBay and bought a random inner track rod end in an attempt to find a shorter one. It fitted straight on. It is actually a bit too short. I found the original track rod end was really tight but it did undo with a ground down 32mm spanner:
IMAG0946.webp
I'd be interested in others' thoughts. Here is the position of the lock nut when the track rod end is in the correct position. Is this enough thread to be engaged?:
IMAG0947.webp
I am not sure. I think I need to find a slightly longer inner track rod end (how to find the specs??) Or shorten the Mk 1 outer TRE's. They are very long and I could cut them down easily and use the lock nuts rather than the split wedgie thing...
Advice sought and welcomed!
 

Attachments

  • IMAG0946.webp
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Thats right on the limit mate. Generally the very minimum thread you need is the depth of the thickness of the thing you're threading on to, which you look to have roughly, but a couple of turns the wrong way will see it below the limit.

It's not an engine mount or boot hinge either, it's a track control component. If you're wrong, then your wheels are going to be pointing the wrong way and most likely it would happen when under stress....fast corners or emergency evasive manoeuvres.
 
Agreed! I think if I have my doubts then that's enough! I think I will cut down the Mk 1 Clio TRE's and use the lock nuts. Don't see anything wrong with doing that? I have heard of others cutting down TRE's before now. I'll put them in a vice and cut them off straight as I can. At least I have found inner TRE's that are short enough to work.

Right! Anyone need a pair of Mk 2 Clio TRE's? Going cheap!!!
 
Thread an old (greased) scrap TRE right in as far as it will go (or a bolt). Cut the track arm down to the bolt, around its radius, but don't cut through the bolt. When the arm is cut through you can wind the TRE out and the threads inside the arm will be intact and it will be a lot easier to thread in the new ones. Also check how deep the thread goes and make sure you don't cut off too much!
 
Thanks for the hints!
I have done some more judicious searching on eBay and have come up with an inner TRE that is a bit longer than the one I have now and shorter than the 182. If my measurements are correct, it should be perfect! Of course I could always go the easy route and try to see if the original GTT winners fit on the rack! That involves finding some mole grips big enough to undo them as they don't have flats on them for a spanner. I suspect the inner threads are different anyway...

I have nearly fitted the new rack. Good news is that it's slightly more compact than the other one and I have only needed to fit one flexible hose instead of the two I used on the other:
IMAG0957.webp
IMAG0956.webp
I have also been able to use the Powerflex bushes. Old ones beside the rack for comparison:
IMAG0961.webp

Have fitted the big rubber boot to the bulkhead:
IMAG0959.webp
 
The input shaft is the same, so long as it's the square (not the splined) one, at least as far as I can make out! Not yet fitted it...

Yes, the GTT inner track rod ends may well fit. Need to get them off the original rack to try but don't have a suitable stillson or monkey wrench. Quite fancy using 182 TRE's for some bizarre reason so I am trying one alternative inner TRE first. Ordered one to try today. For a Trafic.

And thank you, Steve!
 
Woznaldo, the 182 Rack has been used before, the Clio valver and Williams lads have been known to use them and Alastair used one on his blue track 5. Most people space the bracket with washers and leave it like that.
The racks are no quicker than a Williams rack at 2.75 turns lock to lock. I'd keep things simple and fit the 5 inner track rods and I'd only fit longer ones to accommodate a wider track.

I suppose the main advantage of a 182 rack over a Williams is the availability of the rack mounting bushes!
 
You're right about the rack mounting bushes! That was the main reason I changed! Seriously thinking about the GTT inner track rod ends now, but I have got a Trafic one coming later this week that should fit - let's see.
The rack is now bolted in position (with washers as spacers) and it looks fine. The other advantages are that it's a little slimmer than the Mk 1 rack and the rigid pipes are easier to accommodate. It will be quicker than the rack I was using, which was from a standard Clio.
 
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