5 GT Turbo R5 GTT Power Steering conversion

[r5gordini]

Hi All,
I have embarked on the above project! To fit power steering to my GTT. I have seen this post:
http://turborenault.co.uk/threads/39/page-6#post-8111
But I have questions for anyone that has done this before...
I have bought a Clio Mk I rack...

1. Did you have to change the rear engine mount as per the above thread?
2. Did you have to change the steering shaft?
3. The Clio track rod ends are different. The R5 ones are not compatible (internal vs external threads). OK to fit Clio ones?

I think the answers to all questions is yes. Here's the drawing of the Clio steering shaft:

Here's the R5 shaft:



I have the Clio rack all ready to bolt up (once I have removed the seized track rod ends - grr)! I need to get some pipes made up. Pirtek should do it?? Or Hydraquip? I like the way it was done above - where a fitting was fitted to the bulkhead panel to pass the pipes through but I'm going to have to do it the other side - driver's side. I will probably punch holes through the bulkhead panel.
More photos later...
Andrew

 

[r5gordini]

Thanks Steve! Very helpful. As far as bearings are concerned, I have new ones for the top half of the shaft but need the one for the bulkhead grommet as it's different. I'm working with my parts supplier to get it sent to me.
I have asked the vendor of the bracket in Germany if he will send to the UK!
Andrew

 

[Lewis]

You shouldn't need to change the rear engine mount if you can source the correct pipes that fit to the rack. The 5 came with power steering as an option and these cars used the original 5 rear mount, the pipework was different which prevented it from fouling the mount.

 

[Woznaldo]

You shouldn't need to change the rear engine mount if you can source the correct pipes that fit to the rack. The 5 came with power steering as an option and these cars used the original 5 rear mount, the pipework was different which prevented it from fouling the mount.

What I intend to do is fit AN adapters to the Rack and then flex stainless steel hoses to the Pump. If you're talking about the rigid pipes that run along the rack, you could potentially do the same again.

 

[Lewis]

Yes the rigid pipes, I've also seen AN adapters fitted with braided hose used. I don't think there is a great deal of space available though.

 

[r5gordini]

Not much space... What about making up and flaring my own rigid pipes and routing them to suit? Copper should be ok, shouldn't it? If copper were used it would be malleable enough for me to bend to route correctly... No idea if I can find the copper pipe of the right diameter or the flaring tool, for that matter!

 

[Woznaldo]

Not sure what size the Piping is, but you can get 'Microbore' copper pipe in 5/16" (7.94mm) OD? It's what most use to replace the rigid fuel lines.

 

[DaveL485]

Not much space... What about making up and flaring my own rigid pipes and routing them to suit? Copper should be ok, shouldn't it? If copper were used it would be malleable enough for me to bend to route correctly... No idea if I can find the copper pipe of the right diameter or the flaring tool, for that matter!

Banjo with braided teflon line. Think line the clutch line I sent you, but a bit bigger. You can get banjo's to exit at whatever angle you like then.

 

[r5gordini]

Man - you always have great suggestions! I have ordered the necessary banjos and hoses, etc... Hope I've ordered correctly but I think I have!

 

[DaveL485]

Man - you always have great suggestions! I have ordered the necessary banjos and hoses, etc... Hope I've ordered correctly but I think I have!

1) It has to be braided TEFLON line,not just normal braided rubber
2) The banjo's need to be for teflon line, with the olive type fitting (which is different to normal braided rubber fittings)

I tend to order one banjo set (banjo bolt, washers, banjo) first to make sure the fitting is right save wasting £££ on wrong fittings. Order the hose in one length so you can cut to size, when you cut it wrap masking tape around the cut area and cut through the middle of the tape with a thin grinder disc. Don't saw it or use cutters as it mis-shapes the teflon line and makes it extremely difficult to seal.

 

[r5gordini]

Teflon lines and banjos have arrived! They fit! The threads are correct, which was my main concern. It's the same thread as on the 21 clutch.

Unfortunately I have no time this weekend to make up the lines but I will post photos when done.

Just need a square lower steeering shaft with a bulkhead grommet.

 

[r5gordini]

 

[DaveL485]

Teflon lines and banjos have arrived! They fit! The threads are correct, which was my main concern. It's the same thread as on the 21 clutch.

It is really, handy to know. Obviously though the outlet from the banjo is bigger...the clutch line is AN3, whats the steering like? AN6, AN8?

 

[r5gordini]

I've used AN3 to replace the rigid pipes on the rack. The threads are M12x1.0
I don't know about the hydraulics for the pump to rack. They are bigger. Maybe I could make up my own hydraulic pipes in the same way...

 

[DaveL485]

I've used AN3 to replace the rigid pipes on the rack. The threads are M12x1.0
I don't know about the hydraulics for the pump to rack. They are bigger. Maybe I could make up my own hydraulic pipes in the same way...

I don't think AN3 will be big enough mate, I could be wrong but my brain is telling me all the pipes to the rack are bigger than that? How does the internal diameter of the new line compare to the old pipes?

 

[r5gordini]

Darn it! You might be right! I suppose I could just try it? Worst that could happen would be reduced assistance?

I'll start researching larger pipes...

 

[r5gordini]

Hmmm.... Big difference there, isn't there?
Internal diameter is 6mm on the original rigid hose. AN-3 is 4mm.
I could go to AN-4 (5mm ID) or AN-6 (8mm).
Which should I go for? I'm hoping that AN-4 should be good enough?

 

[DaveL485]

Hmmm.... Big difference there, isn't there?
Internal diameter is 6mm on the original rigid hose. AN-3 is 4mm.
I could go to AN-4 (5mm ID) or AN-6 (8mm).
Which should I go for? I'm hoping that AN-4 should be good enough?

I'd go for AN6. That feels about the right size for power steering. Ive worked with AN6 quite a bit lately and I wouldn't want any smaller, in fact if I didn't go 6 i'd go to AN8. Browse this guy on eBay he has a good selection at good prices i've bought a fair bit from him
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AN-6-AN6-...069?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27c7024055
Dont forget to skimlink eBay purchases

Now you know why i tend to order one small item at a time, in case I f*ck it up lol!

 

[r5gordini]

All right! Time for an update...

I went for AN-6 and made up the flexible hoses to replace the rigid ones.

Although they look good, the shorter one isn't long enough, as I found to my cost when fitting everything up. It needs to go through more of a loop so I need to remake it. I am currently waiting for some new olive thingies, should be here on Tuesday...
I also decided to make up my own high pressure hose using AN-8 Teflon hose. I bought an M16 power steering to AN-8 adapter but found that it was too close to the AN-6 banjos! So I modified it like this:


And now it looks like this:

Now everything is a bit tight! And I have spent most of the weekend under the car trying to get everything to fit. In order to get the rack in or out I have to remove the flexibility hoses! Hopefully won't have to do that too many more times.

I think I probably should have gone with the different engine mounts but I am so far down the route of flexible hoses that I now want to see it through like this.
So... Here's a photo from through the wheelarch:

You can see the kink in the shorter hose. There are also some pretty hefty rigid things in the way. One appears to be the clutch cable. I am not sure what the other is and if it's fitted correctly. I didn't fit the engine bay up after the car's restoration. I'm probably going to have to refit the heater matrix hose. It's the wrong side of the power steering hoses now. It'll probably be easier to do it than the PAS! For some reason the hose is massively too long. It's an aftermarket silicone hose so I don't know if they're all like that...
I also now have the Saxo pump and loom. Securing it in the scuttle behind the bulkhead is going to be interesting. Still pondering how to best do it.




I want to use the existing battery tray mountings somehow. I think that the top mount could be extended and brought towards the front of the car and mounted with a couple of bolts to the scuttle panel. Means drilling more holes in it but I'm going to have to do that anyway for the hydraulic hoses! I have some bulkhead pass through AN-8 connectors...
Whilst I was at it I made a special short spanner for doing up AN-8 fittings in confined spaces!

I may also have to shorten the PAS fluid reservoir neck. Me thinks a cut and shut job will do but I'm uncertain as to how to best join the cut parts bac together... I could find some rubber hose of the right diameter or I could use epoxy and a plastic liner insert or something...


It's annoying because it's only a couple of mm too high! Might just go for a trial bonnet fitting bit my honest opinion is that it won't shut...

 

[DaveL485]

Although they look good, the shorter one isn't long enough, as I found to my cost when fitting everything up. It needs to go through more of a loop so I need to remake it.

Shorter the hose the better. Just exit the rack banjo with this:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AN-6-AN6-...441?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item27e4890c91
or
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AN-6-AN6-...256?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item58af1b3288

Assuming there's room but I don't see why not. Will enable you to use an even shorter hose than is there now.

 

[r5gordini]

All right - you've convinced me! I have had to order a different banjo too