Query on 'swap'able' parts?

[mowe79]

I am new to this forum, with the intention of buying a gordini turbo as a project car next year. I used to own a red non turbo r5 gordini about 10 years ago, but had to sell it due to being a poor student (believe the car was used to build a 3 wheeled kit car).

My question is, if I was to find a r5 gordini turbo as a project car I would want to completely strip and rebuild the car (including a full shell rebuild and roll cage fitting). As I would be doing a ground up rebuild what parts would be benefical to use from a more modern mk2 phase 2 gt turbo?

If possible I would like to use as much of the running gear as possible (but keep it looking as 'original' as possible).

I know some of you might class this as sacralige to swap parts, but the ease of getting the gt turbo parts makes sense to me.

As a final note, I am an aircraft engineer with quite alot of experiance playing with cars (and I have quite a few machinist mates) so some fettling and engineering changes wouldn't be to much of a problem.

 

[Mark]

Hi and welcome, ref the the Gt turbo, most if not all parts are different, such as the engine in a GT is transverse and Gordini inline, making everything under the bonnet inc the mounts different. Why not contact Phildini, he has enough spares to build a new car, as its close to Christmas and a time of giving he's got a sale on........................

 

[mowe79]

I am not planning on starting buying anything until the early part of next year, just starting the planning to see what is possible.

Fabricating new mounts for engine and gearbox would be no problem at all, does anyone know if this has been done before?

So from your response, I guess the engine will be a 'bit of a job' to fit, but would it physically fit in the bay?

Also what about the suspension? Are any of the mounts for the arms similar or can the hubs be made to fit? (really want disc's all round, nothing to do with stopping power just hate working on drums).

I am not planning a quick project, I am expect this to take a while and really want a bit of a challenge. Any ideas?

 

[read6737]

The GD turbo has disks all round.
As for the rest of your ideas.
Why do you really want to put the MK2 bits on a MK1?
I had a little chat with my best friend the other week re the MK1 and 2 engines, and his opinion as a time served mechanic for the last
35 yrs is that the MK1 engines are more solid, less frigile than the MK2s. We decided that the best MK2 engine was the 1.7 that Volvo used from the MK2.

There is a saying anything is possible with time and money.

 

[Mark]

The nearest comapatible parts would be Turbo1/2 parts, but not cheap, although they do come up occasionally, also available from France, see the link for more infor

http://www.johnpricerallying.com/renault-5-turbo-parts


http://www.mecaparts.com/

 

[sparkie]

The GD turbo has disks all round.
As for the rest of your ideas.
Why do you really want to put the MK2 bits on a MK1?
I had a little chat with my best friend the other week re the MK1 and 2 engines, and his opinion as a time served mechanic for the last
35 yrs is that the MK1 engines are more solid, less frigile than the MK2s. We decided that the best MK2 engine was the 1.7 that Volvo used from the MK2.

There is a saying anything is possible with time and money.

the mk1 bits are no harder to get in this country than the mk2 now. in the last 12 years of exclusive renault 5 ownership - i own a mk1, owned a turbo 2 and several gt turbos. i have rebuilt engines on all of them. please read this next bit carefully:
THE ENGINES ARE ESSENTIALLY THE SAME.
gt turbo lumps have extra bits of casting on the blocks, that can easily be ground off so it 'becomes' a gordini block. the turbo 2 block has larger cam journals that a full set of 4 bearings are pushed into. the gordini has 1 bearing at the gearbox end. the gt turbo has no bearings - the cam runs in the block.
I'd love to know how your mate thinks that the mk2 engines (bar the 1.7 lump) are inferior to the mk1's - the head on the gordinis and turbo2's are better by a country mile admittedly - but the short engine is the same.

 

[mowe79]

I hope I haven't opened a can of worms with this one, not my plan!!

My reasoning for wanting to use the mk2 phase 2 gt turbo running gear, was that I had been told that it was a better base (better cooling and more reliable?? sounds like I was mis-informed), and that after a quick look around was easier to source the parts for the later r5's.

Also I hed to rebuild the engine of my mk1 r5 gordini (non-turbo) when I had the car (about 10 years ago). To get the pistons and liners I had to learn a bit of technical french and order over the phone as the cost of getting them here was awful. I gues thiss has changed now due to the lovely internet taking over.

Finally, you say the basic short engine of all the turbo engines are the same. Does this mean if the cooling is (not sure my information is correct now) of the later gt turbo cars is better, this could be retro fitted to a gordini engine?

Sorry to ask a load of questions, I like to get things straight in my head before I start something. And this thread has already helped alot.

 

[sparkie]

You can use gtt pistons and liners in the gordini block. The cooling is merely a rad issue. You can either fit a low temp rad fan switch to it - like they do on gtt's or fit twin aftermarket fans to the rad.

 

[r5gordini]

And the Gordini Turbo radiator is bigger and has a larger surface area than the GTT one, so should cool better!

I've seen somewhere on the net (a Dutch site) where someone replaces the engine with an Energy one and goes completely to town on it. However, I'm now unable to find that site.

One thought would be to use the standard engine, strengthen it a little and design a custom exhaust manifold, use a small, modern turbo and an intercooler and full engine management.

You can swap the rad with a shorter one and fit an intercooler beside it, or keep the original rad and fit a fmic or a water/air intercooler.

Move the battery to the boot for more space under the bonnet.

All my thoughts...

Andrew (site owner and Gordini Turbo owner since 1997)

 

[sparkie]

not forgetting that the gtt has an integral oil coiler in its rad, whereas the gordini turbo has a seperate one. its gotta have some bearing on water temps..... :lol: