MK1 engine ----> MK2 engine

[Brett]

I think I may explore the MK2 gearbox option (no idea where to start!!) and also maybe have a look at some KWs. They are pretty expensive mind... :s . I've already got some MK2 wheels to go on (really that much heavier??) so bigger brakes will definitely be a future mod.

The gearbox will not be hard to fit fella. Finding one might be the issue though. I did have a loads of info somewhere regarding the different ratio's the PK6 box can offer. Wheel wise, I think the ph2 change is a brilliant one. Ive said before, I drove Bill Patchall's car on a damp/slippery Bruntingthorpe and it was superb. To the point where you realise that the hype of the V6's tricky handling has been blown well out of proportion. Combine the wheel change with a set of coilovers and it would definatly, 100% transform your vee to another level.

I remember speaking to a engine tuner about our engines and they said the inlets plenumns etc aren't the issue to making more power. Its actually the area around the throat of the valve. I'd be interested to see what the gains would be if the heads and cams were improved upon on a stock ph1 motor using the standard plastic inlet.

 

[Spike]

Hi guys, good topic,
so does anyone want a smashed mk2 that runs, cat c heavy front offside? i know where there is one.
oh, and i do agree with brett with the valve throat, the design is pants and could be easily improved upon, also there seems to be too many changes in area of the inlet, this disrupts the flow. twr tried to address this by sleeving the inlets but i also think this is the wrong way to go as the port size is then too small. this needs some serious looking at, any ideas brett?

 

[Brett]

I'm not sure if sleeving heads works or not to be honest. Ive heard it does by using the venturi effect and forcing the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber. Thing is I've never heard of traditional gas flowing/head porting and high lift/long duration cams ever failing.

My idea??? Get the older L7X V6 for about 99p. Take the heads off. Port them right out, up the C/R while your at it, fit them with nice raccy cams. Ditch the vvc which is useless anyway and fit some fully adjustable verniers. Refit heads along with stock ph1 inlet or ph2 if you have one. Then add a fully programmable ECU such as Emerald, Gotec etc etc.

Feeling brave????? Then leave the standard C/R or lower it slightly (Its lower on the non vvc engines) and add a small turbo to feed it with a constant, non adjustable 10psi of clean fresh air








......oh and ditch the chocolate teapot gearbox lol

 

[taipan]

Interesting thoughts there Brett. A LOT more work than I was intending on :rofl: but fascinating none-the-less :approve: :approve:

I think I'll concentrate on rubber, brakes and suspension not to mention some potential weight saving before I even look at the gearbox.

I do like the idea of turbo/supercharger but it just doesn't seem financially viable not to mention remotely reliable in the long term. I may revisit the possibility of a MK2 engine drop in if one presents itself but for now I think I'll get on with the non-engine mods. By the time I've finished those I'm sure someone on here will have taken/re-taken the plunge with some serious engine mods.

As an aside, assuming money was no limit what are the main reasons that the Vee is so hard to mod? Mechanical fragility? Lack of space? Limited airflow? Heat issues?

 

[ed_harland]

As an aside, assuming money was no limit what are the main reasons that the Vee is so hard to mod? Mechanical fragility? Lack of space? Limited airflow? Heat issues?

Yep all of that !

 

[ed_harland]

I also like the mk1 front lights. I prefer the rest of the mk2, but i like the front lights on a mk1. They better match the rounded contours of the car. :approve:
Peter

Same here love the lights but the mk2 is a much better car

 

[Spike]

I'm not sure if sleeving heads works or not to be honest. Ive heard it does by using the venturi effect and forcing the fuel/air mixture into the combustion chamber. Thing is I've never heard of traditional gas flowing/head porting and high lift/long duration cams ever failing.

My idea??? Get the older L7X V6 for about 99p. Take the heads off. Port them right out, up the C/R while your at it, fit them with nice raccy cams. Ditch the vvc which is useless anyway and fit some fully adjustable verniers. Refit heads along with stock ph1 inlet or ph2 if you have one. Then add a fully programmable ECU such as Emerald, Gotec etc etc.

Feeling brave????? Then leave the standard C/R or lower it slightly (Its lower on the non vvc engines) and add a small turbo to feed it with a constant, non adjustable 10psi of clean fresh air

......oh and ditch the chocolate teapot gearbox lol

I agree with all of that exept the compression ratio. i feel that if the heads flowed anywhere correctly you would need a reduction in C/R to offset against far more efficient cylinder filling. these engines do knock quite badly under load, its only the clever ECU rolling the timing off in time that saves the day. my opinion is it rolls off too far for decent power, hence the reduction in C/R.
good post though brett.

 

[Brett]

I agree with all of that exept the compression ratio. i feel that if the heads flowed anywhere correctly you would need a reduction in C/R to offset against far more efficient cylinder filling. these engines do knock quite badly under load, its only the clever ECU rolling the timing off in time that saves the day. my opinion is it rolls off too far for decent power, hence the reduction in C/R.
good post though brett.

Your probably right if you want to keep the engine nice and docile to be fair. Me, personaly would like a bit of a kick in the ass further up the rev range hence the higher c/r. Could always run flat top pistons, 14-1 c/r and fill the old girl up on aviation fuel......now thats a laugh!

In all honesty, it really wouldn't cost a fortune to rebuild one of the the early non vvc engines in to an utter screamer or stump puller. Its a case of knowing where to draw the line. You don't need forged pistons, billet rods and really trick parts to turn them into stronger, sportier engines. Offset regrind the crankshaft with new shells and 3.1-3.2 liters is probably in the grasp with a nice increase in c/r and torque to follow. Conrods can always be shotpeened, polished, lightened and balanced end to end and fitted with upgraded bolts for next to nothing. Thats if you intend to live higher up the rev range all day long. Pistons can also be modified by either shot peening under the crowns, ceramic coating and lightening and balancing. Cam wise, regrind the originals. Ok they won't be as good as one off billet ones but they will serve a good purpose especially as there will be no variable settings to worry about. This is work that 90% of all good, friendly local engine machine shops could carry out or get done for you at a low cost.....oh and the ES9 and L7X engines can be had for 99p....Bargain!
Obviously, owners such as MikeT, Timv6, twr1 etc etc need to use exotic materials and parts because they are pushing the line that little bit further. To the point where normal materials won't do.

Just my opinions

 

[taipan]

Great work Tim. And a great write up. Really shows me the detail and extent you need to go to get a reliable 50-70bhp+ :approve: :approve:

Seems a MK2 gerabox is a worthwhile upgrade as well. Something I'll consider when I get round to the engine modding phase of my little project!!

 

[Brett]

Before you go trying to extract every bit of power from the car i personally would improve the way the car is and behaves without touching the power as that will make a massive difference to how much you enjoy it - AND
will save you a fortune!!!!

Tim

Thats very true.

 

[taipan]

I suppose it's the standard mantra that should be applied to all cars really (bar super/hypercars I suppose); sort the suspension, tyres and brakes first and then think about eeking more bhp from the engine.

Anyone know where I can get some KW3s. Guess I should ask on here. Not a fan of paying £1.5k for the new items :s

 

[WONGY]

I have the mk2 gearbox upgrade and I agree it's a noticeable difference with acceleration due to better ratios, think the diff casing is stronger as well?

Also think mk1s are about 80kg lighter than mk2?

Which means with recaros and kws suspension reducing weight you must be nearer the mk2 power to weight ratio anyway not to mention a better handling car than standard and not sliding around in those standard armchairs!

 

[Peter255]

Lets not forget the Mk2 rear subframe is revised as well to somewhat improve the handling.

There may be other chassis stiffening as well (i can't remember tbh).

The extra weight is not all due to climate control, xenons etc.

Peter

 

[taipan]

Resurrecting this.

Would there be major issues caused by transplanting ph2 running gear (engine/gearbox) into a ph1 or would it be a fairly straight swap. Anyone know if this has already been done by someone?

Ta.

 

[Brett]

As far as engine transplants go, this would be as easy as it gets. Would only be a case of wiring it up correctly.

 

[taipan]

Gold star Brett for replying with the correct response!!

This potentially bodes well...

 

[Spike]

Hurry up then tim! can't wait. when will it be 350? :rollseyes: no, only jokin.

 

[Brett]

Gold star Brett for replying with the correct response!!

This potentially bodes well...

Forgot to mention engine covers! Not a problem though as Bill patchall and CarbonDelight are the people to talk to for these.

 

[Brett]

You might be right tim. I know the ph2 covers are a little taller so wasn't sure if they were needed. Duncan should be able to clear that up though.

 

[taipan]

Cover fitment shouldn't be an issue as if (and it's a big if) I decide on this route I'd probably try to go with no covers and a perspex bulkhead.