MK1 engine ----> MK2 engine

[taipan]

As the title suggests really. What's involved in getting the MK1 engine to the spec of the MK2 engine and roughly how many £'s are we talking? Oh and who could work such wonders?

I did watch Arno's video on RenaultSportCenter but it didn't really give much insight as to what had to be done.

 

[CraigV6]

Just buy a mk2?????

 

[Jamesv6]

Borrowed from one of our articles.....

The upper part of the engine, from the air intake to the combustion chambers, is new. With an intake pressure loss of just 25mb, a level rarely achieved on a production vehicle, cylinder filling is enhanced at medium and high speeds:

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New dedicated air filter with a volume of 11.5 litres (vs. 6.1 litres) using an extra-high permeability filter cartridge.
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Motorised throttle valve with a diameter of 74mm (40% gain in passage section).
*

New plenum with integral trumpets and short, machined intake ducts. The acoustic tuning of the assembly has been optimised for high engine speeds.
*
The camshaft uses settings which result in quicker and greater valve lift. The variable inlet valve timing is carried over.

Valves, seats and machined intake pipes have been developed for the new internal aerodynamics. New valve springs ensure optimum control of lift.

The fuel supply system has been improved with a new twin-passage injection ramp and injectors with a flow rate around 50% higher. The engine management computer power has been increased and its new calibration is notable for its finer control in transient conditions and better control of response to the accelerator.

 

[V6 2HOT]

What about just buying a phase 2 engine from a written-off vee? Is that possible?

 

[taipan]

Just buy a mk2?????

Not a fan of the looks...

 

[taipan]

lots of interesting stuff

Thanks James :approve:

Not sure how much I actually understood though!! I seem to remember Duncan brought his MK1 to a MK2 state. Anyone know how much it would all cost? And who could undertake the work?

As Nas said, would it be easier and more cost effective just to dump a MK2 engine in I wonder??

Just thinking out loud I guess no real plans to undertake such a change, more wondering if it's possible and whether it'd be more hassle than it's worth!!!

 

[Duncan]

After undertaking the mods myself, I would say it isnt worth the money.

It would be cheaper to put a mk2 engine in a mk1 than mod a mk1 engine to mk2 spec, but you have all the mapping issues to resolve as you cant straight switch the engine and ecu….and even if you mod the mk1 engine you need to consider how you are going to remap it….its not simple and for only circa 20 bhp, just isnt worth the 2/3/4k its going to cost.

to mod the mk1 engine, you need new inlet plenum, throttle body, cams, fuel rails, few little clips and bits. i didnt change the cams myself and still got 253bhp out of the old girl.

Most cost effective would be to just change to a mk2 gearbox and enjoy the smoother changes, shorter ratios and improved acceleration of the gearbox. This is a mod I'd recommend to any mk1 owner, but bear in mind theres a lot of labour involved changing the gearbox. If you want to do this give SG motorsport a ring. You can get a second hand mk2 gearbox for around £300-500.

don’t get me wrong, the few extra horses did bring my old car to life and I loved it at the time, but for the total modding cost…I could of owned 2 v6's…which I now regret as I have none!

 

[Peter255]

Just buy a mk2?????

Not a fan of the looks...

I also like the mk1 front lights. I prefer the rest of the mk2, but i like the front lights on a mk1. They better match the rounded contours of the car. :approve:

Get a mk2 with frontal damage and get someone to fit mk1 lights and bumper. Perfect!

Then you get all the better bits under the skin and the look you crave. Lets be honest the rest of the car looks VERY similar.

Peter

 

[taipan]

been there done that!!

Cheers Duncan. Just the info I was after. I'd expected both options to neither be cheap or particularly easy but a dynod 253bhp (considering the Renault figures are already a little...er...generous) was something that interested me. Maybe I should have bought your car in the first place

I hate to use your experience/lighter wallet as a reason not to do the swap/upgrade but it seems you have a point. Not much point in emptying my wallet at the engine for 20, max 30bhp more. So cheers for sharing :approve:

What are the fundamental differences in the gearboxes between the two other than the closer ratios of the MK2? I'm hoping stronger is an answer but I'm guessing not!!

Guess I'll speak to Scott about it and see what he suggests. Seems like a cheap way to make the Vee at least feel faster!! I've been reading too many sob stories in the archive recently to risk throwing £'s and £'s at the engine.

Also, while we're on the topic of engine performance would it be beneficial to get a remap (i.e. not chip) with a Quicksilver Supersport and a collector pipe cat delete. Someone on here said that there'd be a substantial change in back pressure that may play havoc with the original ECU settings...

 

[taipan]

Just buy a mk2?????

Not a fan of the looks...

I also like the mk1 front lights. I prefer the rest of the mk2, but i like the front lights on a mk1. They better match the rounded contours of the car. :approve:

Get a mk2 with frontal damage and get someone to fit mk1 lights and bumper. Perfect!

Then you get all the better bits under the skin and the look you crave. Lets be honest the rest of the car looks VERY similar.

Peter

I hear what you're saying but then I'd end up with a, at best, CAT D car and a hefty rebuild bill, not to mention having to sell my current Vee, which I absolutely love!!

Also, I don't think it's a matter of just swapping the headlights, I'd need to swap the whole front end. I think the MK2 front end is vastly different underneath so physically attaching them to the MK1 underpinnings would be a mission in itself. Probably cheaper than the original engine mods I was thinking about though...

 

[Peter255]

Just buy a mk2?????

Not a fan of the looks...

I also like the mk1 front lights. I prefer the rest of the mk2, but i like the front lights on a mk1. They better match the rounded contours of the car. :approve:

Get a mk2 with frontal damage and get someone to fit mk1 lights and bumper. Perfect!

Then you get all the better bits under the skin and the look you crave. Lets be honest the rest of the car looks VERY similar.

Peter

I hear what you're saying but then I'd end up with a, at best, CAT D car and a hefty rebuild bill, not to mention having to sell my current Vee, which I absolutely love!!

Also, I don't think it's a matter of just swapping the headlights, I'd need to swap the whole front end. I think the MK2 front end is vastly different underneath so physically attaching them to the MK1 underpinnings would be a mission in itself. Probably cheaper than the original engine mods I was thinking about though...

To put a mk1 front end on a mk2 would be just a different bonnet, bumper and wings TBH. But a mk2 has a different track so it'd have to be adapted. But IMO it would be the ultimate Vee. ALL the best bits. And if you can find a damaged Vee you can buy it cheaper to begin with.

IIRC the trophys just had a new nose added to what is otherwise an identical car (mk1 - mk2).

It ALL depends on if you EVER want to sell it. If not who cares, be different have what YOU want. If you want to maybe sell on then don't do any significant mods. Its hard enough to shift a Vee, let alone one thats had an engine transplant or a nose job! :rofl:

Peter

 

[Peter255]

..... too be clear i'm not condoning a mk1 "nose job" for a non crashed mk2 Vee. Sacrilidge!

But if its already in bits then why not? :approve:

Peter

 

[Duncan]

I think the box is more or less identical. You can't tell them apart to look at anyway. They are both the same strength (ie made of cheese) but the mk1 clutch is stronger. The mk2 box has closer ratios and isn't long throw like the mk1.

I would only remap it if it runs poorly, otherwise your potentially opening another can of worms. I have heard positive comments with regards to chipping it, but I have also heard of a loss of power when chipped and decatted.

Another good mod to consider is kw v3's, as well as improving the handling, they do offer a good weight saving over standard suspension.

 

[Brett]

I think the big advantage of the ph1-ph2 top end swap is that you uttilise the lighter shell of the Ph1. In my opinion, there's next to bugger all, if any performnce difference between the two marks because of that fact. Gearbox swap would definatly be a cracking upgrade like Duncan says though and very easy if you can get hold of one.

Have not considered fitting coilovers, wider tyres and bigger brakes to start with?

 

[Williams]

Anyone know where the extra weight lays on the mk2?

 

[Brett]

Extra safety bars/braces along with better/heavier interior trim materials I'd imagin. Wheels are heavier too I bet.

 

[V6 Ade]

How about a Nissan 350Z lump, now that could be a worthwhile conversion

 

[Duncan]

Sadly the 350z engine is too tall too fit. There's a thread on here about it.

 

[taipan]

NSX engine?

 

[taipan]

I think the big advantage of the ph1-ph2 top end swap is that you uttilise the lighter shell of the Ph1. In my opinion, there's next to bugger all, if any performnce difference between the two marks because of that fact. Gearbox swap would definatly be a cracking upgrade like Duncan says though and very easy if you can get hold of one.

Have not considered fitting coilovers, wider tyres and bigger brakes to start with?

That's exactly what I was trying to exploit Brett. I realise that a MK2 spec engine won't suddenly make the MK1 a rocket but it may be a nice little bit of extra umph in the lighter surroundings. As Duncan said though it seems like it would be a lot of hassle for not much gain though - as is mostly the case with the Vee!!

I think I may explore the MK2 gearbox option (no idea where to start!!) and also maybe have a look at some KWs. They are pretty expensive mind... :s . I've already got some MK2 wheels to go on (really that much heavier??) so bigger brakes will definitely be a future mod.