How many horse power MK1 gear box can handle

[Brett]

If I remember correctly Simon, it was your small pit crew who had burnt hands and stunk of sweaty socks.....You on the other hand looked like the Enzo Ferrari of Scotlandshire! Lmao Good times!

 

[WONGY]

To clarify my question I meant even if VAG box would even that diff stand up to first increased power - probably yes but second the Clio is rear engine over the wheels - was told that's what screws the diff or standing starts 4000rpm no wheelspin puts increased stress on the diff

In normal application the vag box is for a fwd car that probably allows wheelspin so the diffs not as stressed?

That said with an LSD could solve the problem so you need VAG box + diff is what you're saying I think?

Finally I had a mk1 with diff whine - crap shell oil did it fitted by the dealer at my first service

I've now got a mk2 box with the correct elf oil but I rarely do standing starts high revs so as spike said be sympathetic with the box! 25k miles later it's working fine changes are good and no diff whine

 

[Brett]

There's no argument in the fact that its location above the rear wheels definatly puts more strain upon the gearbox from a standing start point of veiw. However, the PKO6 in other fwd applications has also been proved to be a weak link so in my opinion that is not the issue. If someone is seriously going to charge one of these engines, whether it be turbo or supercharged, they simply won't take to the extra torque regardless if you dont do standing starts.
Fitting an LSD doesn't improve the strength of the gearbox in anyway either. However that is unless the gears and pins within the stock PK06 diff are also weak and at fault.
I think the point you are missing with converting to a vag gearbox Wongy is that although you haven't uprated anything on the german factory part, the inherent weaknesses of the Pk06 is pretty much non existent because generally speaking, the germans seem to lean on the over engineered fence as opposed to under as per the french usually do. This means its a cost effective upgrade to those likely to tear a Pk06 a new ass hole.

 

[rustedandrotten]

LSD will make matters worse as breaking traction on one wheel is like a built-in safety valve when it comes to gearbox integrity when running a std box, rear end weight is normally adequate to get the power down with decent grippy tyres.

 

[WONGY]

Ok I get it now

But I don't think anyone has tried it or proved it yet that VW box would be a good replacement so maybe Ricky will be the first again then it goes from theory to practice!

As an FYI he's already aiming for sub 1000kg via replacement of the clios parts with titanium so I'm sure he'll work out the other issues

 

[shinji]

WONGY, where did you get your gearbox oil from?

My Vee is coming up for MOT in May so I wanted start ordering parts.

Can the gearbox dipstick tool be ordered by the public from Renault? Or you need some sort of trade account?

 

[Jamesv6]

Yes you can order the filling tool from Renault. Part number 0000167500 £5.21 GBP

 

[WONGY]

I got my oil from Scott - it's the ELF one nothing else will do but I remember James Scott vs RPD couldn't agree on the part number !

 

[Alpineandy]

Surely you could fit one of these GBox
No idea of the price though.......

 

[Brett]

Keeeerchiiiing! And thats just the software to use it lol

 

[rustedandrotten]

Still only 500 nm or 365 ft lb max capability

 

[Alpineandy]

Still only 500 nm or 365 ft lb max capability

Go 4WD then with : BiggerGBox

[smilie=icon_eek.gif]

 

[Spike]

The Sadev box is a good box though and perfectly capable, if a little noisy. I think the price is around 10k!
Still no answer to what the real problems are with the pk6, yes I know its weak but there are ways of re-engineering certain problems out even if it means big engineering, you can do a lot with 10k.
My above comment is along the lines of fitting much larger bearings and strengthening the case if this is found to be weak, I have not heard of many with broken gears so would a strengthened case and bigger bearings be an option for us that wish to stick with the std option? I have mentioned about the crap oiling system, my thoughts here are to open up the oil paths but this is a lot of work to strip the box?
Yes I agree if you were racing one you would throw this on the scrap heap but that is not what I am talking about, I am with staying stock especially with the recent rise in prices of std vehicles.

 

[rustedandrotten]

Spike :approve: need to find a box to look at, I had similar problems with Classic Range Rover boxes with the torque from big turbo diesels, ended up shrink banding round the casings to stop distorting under load.

 

[Brett]

Think your looking at between £13-14k for a new Sadev. Then you'll need to add a couple more for the software to run it, then a tilton clutch kit or similar and then a trophy flywheel or custom jobbie to mate it all together.

Weak points....

1) Poor syncro's

2) Poor diff casing

3) Diff gears can easily shred teeth. (They did on my last)

4) Gear tooth quality could be better. My old box under inspection had nasty faces on the teeth.

 

[Spike]

Brett, I wonder if no3 is a direct result of no2? if the diff casing is weak to the point of bad distortion it could be allowing excess clearance on the gears that would cause tooth failure. A cure could be in external strapping as suggested above by Simon.
Simon, I do have a spare box.

 

[Brett]

I would say your probably right Spike but the casing on that particular 'box was in perfectly usable condition with no crack or signs of fatigue. The friend that I gave it to checked the ovalty of the bearing houses and said that they were fine and fit for a normal rebuild. In the end I opted not to and it sat in my garage for ages.
I remember the day the gearbox shit itself. I was on one of the club meets in Oxfordshire. Started with the faintest of whines early in the morning and finished sounding like a case full of type 1 aggregate! It opperated fine apart from the typical worn 3rd gear syncro.

 

[WONGY]

I thought the mk2 had improvements after porsche took a look eg stronger diff casing plus ratios 1-3 different not sure if the gears are strengthened too?

Maybe as Spike suggest some internal fettling might help

Sadly I threw away a mk1 box when the diff whined

That and after fitting the mk2 box it was way better

 

[Duncan]

I broke a ph2 gearbox, but have had 2 ph1 boxes that were fine.

I always thought that gear ratios aside, they were identical. They look identical from the outside.

 

[Lankan]

Interesting thread.........look forward to the outcome.

I thought Porsche were only involved in fettling the Phase 2's engine and engine management system.

Shame the gearbox and drive shafts weren't beefed up as well.