How many horse power MK1 gear box can handle

[rickyricky3211]

Hello Guys,
May I ask if anyone know that what is the maximum horse power our MK1 original gear box handled? Thanks

 

[Kett]

Hi Ricky,

As you probably are aware - it is a descendent of the Renault Traffic box. Not really designed for significant gains.
I think the common consensus is that >300bhp will raise the risk of premature failure...

 

[k1ano]

Hi Ricky,

As you probably are aware - it is a descendent of the Renault Traffic box. Not really designed for significant gains.
I think the common consensus is that >300bhp will raise the risk of premature failure...

Isn't it torque which kills gearboxes ?

 

[Ali]

You'll spend more on the motor getting it to 300bhp than on replacement boxes...

 

[Brett]

They are made from a combination of soft cheese, low quality knock off chocolate, carrot sticks and a few bits of ally and steel. They don't take kindly to abuse or much more torque than standard. Best thing to do is swap it for a VAG item if you dont intend swapping it from time to time. Something that is quite easy to do and is not an engine out job to do ill add.

 

[shinji]

They are made from a combination of soft cheese, low quality knock off chocolate, carrot sticks and a few bits of ally and steel.

Brie or Camembert?

Best thing to do is swap it for a VAG item if you dont intend swapping it from time to time. Something that is quite easy to do and is not an engine out job to do ill add.

Can you shed a bit more info on this VAG item? I can hear a faint diff whine on mine at the moment and a Ph2 gearbox are very rare to come by...

 

[Brett]

There are a few things you can do.

1. Tear out the original engine and gearbox then replace it with an Audi B5 S4 engine with VW Passat gearbox. Your not going to want to do that though!

2. I'm told a company called EFIparts are fabricating parts to convert the 172/182 to use a vw golf gearbox. Im also lead to believe that those cars, 172/182, share the same bellhousing pattern as the v6 and Pk06 gearbox. If that is true, then there is no reason why the golf gearbox can't be mated to the v6 engine aside from a pair of modified or custom driveshafts. Again, if you want an easy life, it wont be for you. But, if you give your car some stick, then its worth looking at.

 

[Brett]

There are a few things you can do.

1. Tear out the original engine and gearbox then replace it with an Audi B5 S4 engine with VW Passat gearbox. Your not going to want to do that though!

2. I'm told a company called EFIparts are fabricating parts to convert the 172/182 to use a vw golf gearbox. Im also lead to believe that those cars, 172/182, share the same bellhousing pattern as the v6 and Pk06 gearbox. If that is true, then there is no reason why the golf gearbox can't be mated to the v6 engine aside from a pair of modified or custom driveshafts. Again, if you want an easy life, it wont be for you. But, if you give your car some stick, then its worth looking at.

 

[WONGY]

Ricky is turbocharging his vee

So suggested to him that his box might not take the torque power output of his engine

VWs an interesting conversion but that's just the gears - surely the diff is the bigger problem ?

 

[shinji]

From what I read here over the years it seems like it is a combination of the gearbox housing not strong enough and the diff that causes failure.

But which one would give first? Housing or diff?

Can the diff weakness be easily resolved by using something like a Quaife ATB? Or am I down the wrong path of thinking ?

 

[shinji]

There are a few things you can do.

1. Tear out the original engine and gearbox then replace it with an Audi B5 S4 engine with VW Passat gearbox. Your not going to want to do that though!

That is major surgery! Was just thinking what can be done to make the box for durable and longevity.

2. I'm told a company called EFIparts are fabricating parts to convert the 172/182 to use a vw golf gearbox. Im also lead to believe that those cars, 172/182, share the same bellhousing pattern as the v6 and Pk06 gearbox. If that is true, then there is no reason why the golf gearbox can't be mated to the v6 engine aside from a pair of modified or custom driveshafts. Again, if you want an easy life, it wont be for you. But, if you give your car some stick, then its worth looking at.

That would be easily check by looking at the engineering drawings of the bell housing of the 172/182 and compare it with the drawings with the v6 PK6 gearbox.......provided someone have access to Renault drawing database.

I don't think getting a pair of custom driveshafts would be difficult (group buy? ) and this would be a path I would rather go down than option 1.

 

[Brett]

VWs an interesting conversion but that's just the gears - surely the diff is the bigger problem ?

Not quite sure what you mean by this fella? It would be a complete gearbox swap, not just the internals. It will get rid of all the PK06 woes in a very cost effective way. There's not much that is worth saving on the PK06 gearbox. The syncro's are weak and end up crunching on swift gear changes, in particular 3rd and the diff housing is weak an can crack. I broke 3rd and 4th syncro rings and then shafted the diff with a stock ph1 torque out put. The PK06 is so bad in fact that Renault advised Traffic owners not to tow anything with them. When its in good working order, its a lovely gearbox to use in my opinion and fits well in the Clio v6 driving experience. However, speaking from experience, there isn't any fun in driving one with worn syncro's and having to find another to change it.

 

[Brett]

There are a few things you can do.

1. Tear out the original engine and gearbox then replace it with an Audi B5 S4 engine with VW Passat gearbox. Your not going to want to do that though!

That is major surgery! Was just thinking what can be done to make the box for durable and longevity.

2. I'm told a company called EFIparts are fabricating parts to convert the 172/182 to use a vw golf gearbox. Im also lead to believe that those cars, 172/182, share the same bellhousing pattern as the v6 and Pk06 gearbox. If that is true, then there is no reason why the golf gearbox can't be mated to the v6 engine aside from a pair of modified or custom driveshafts. Again, if you want an easy life, it wont be for you. But, if you give your car some stick, then its worth looking at.

That would be easily check by looking at the engineering drawings of the bell housing of the 172/182 and compare it with the drawings with the v6 PK6 gearbox.......provided someone have access to Renault drawing database.

I don't think getting a pair of custom driveshafts would be difficult (group buy? ) and this would be a path I would rather go down than option 1.

Number 1 is actually a lot easier than you think but I certainly wouldn't blame anyone for not biting that bullet! Lol

Number 2 is long over due in my opinion. There is MUCH more scope for improvement too once the VAG 'box is in. Proper LSD's (not the lesser Quaife AT, different gear ratio kits etc etc. It will also end up being a fit and forget modification being infinitely more durable than the Renault unit.

 

[Spike]

Hi Ricky,

As you probably are aware - it is a descendent of the Renault Traffic box. Not really designed for significant gains.
I think the common consensus is that >300bhp will raise the risk of premature failure...

Isn't it torque which kills gearboxes ?

Quite an interesting thread, and I would agree with K1ano and say that high levels of torque will kill a pk6 box. now without going into swapping this for that and spending a fortune I have some comments. the main thing I would say is the gearbox in these cars seems to be a forgotten hero, we all know its not up to violence and abuse but how many of us change the gearbox oil with the engine oil? knowing that the box is weak I would advise using the best quality oil and changing it REGULARLY. personal I think the genuine oil leaves a lot to be desired. also drive it with respect, its not brand new any more and was never designed as a performance box. Another common mistake with these boxes is incorrect oil level, too much oil will prevent the oil being forced down the centre of the shafts accelerating failure, it uses the diff to fling the oil like a pump down a channel in the casing and over filling slows this down.
I wonder if that now these cars are over 10 years old it would be worth investigating the manufacture of superior syncros and possibly other weak issues.
Whilst I think Bretts thoughts of a VW gearbox are a good idea a lot on here wish to keep the cars bog stock.

 

[Brett]

I think you maybe right regarding the fluids. I for one however would only use the original type of fluid. I put some expensive, easier to get hold of stuff in mine yonks back and it was shit. The sycro's hated it. Reverted back to the Reno stuff and it worked lovely. That however won't increase its inherent strength issues. I'm all for polishing turds but I draw the line at the PK06 box. Take the Audi gearbox I am using for instance. Came out of a car with 130hp and I'm guessing 200lb/ft. It's good for around 650-700lb/ft with out cracking it open and only needs basic maintenance. The Reno 'box is at the under engineered end of the spectrum where as the VAG items are at the over engineered end. If the PK06 was somewhere in the middle I'd say its worth working with.

 

[Spike]

I totally take on board what you are saying Brett but I for one will stick with the std box and nurse it along.

 

[Brett]

Nothing wrong with that at all Spike. I dont blame anyone nursing the gearbox on a stock car with low milage. Such a shame when you consider how reliable the engine attached to it is though.

 

[shinji]

Thanks SPIKE and Brett! Two of forums' greatest mechanic minds! :salut:

I wholeheartedly agree with a SPIKE about gearbox maintenance and using the right oil and with the correct amount. (FYR, Idefix (Frank) has provided the part number for gearbox dipstick tool 0000167500 B.vi 1675 and I assume that this tool is only used when filling the gearbox.)

I also really like Brett's idea of a fit'n'forget modified VAG boxes. The vee has a fairly robust engine and would love to mate a gearbox that is as equally durable.

Personally, I like to keep my engine standard or OEM+ Would much prefer to spend money to perfect handling issues and driving lessons. :race:

 

[Spike]

The correct dipstick tool should be used whenever adding oil, if you dont have the tool then use some common sense. there is a measurement from the filler hole to the oil but offhand i dont remember what it is. IMO it is better to have slightly less oil than slightly more oil due to the oiling system not being very positive.

 

[rustedandrotten]

The correct dipstick tool should be used whenever adding oil, if you dont have the tool then use some common sense. there is a measurement from the filler hole to the oil but offhand i dont remember what it is. IMO it is better to have slightly less oil than slightly more oil due to the oiling system not being very positive.

Excess oil is really a No-No with these, once hot they pump the excess out of the Filler/breather pipe which leads to a lot of none too pleasant aromas and more worryingly oil on the nearside rear tyre. Dipstick is available from RPD, :approve: Mine had just come from a main stealer service when I bought it and when i rang them up after dumping oil all over(remember Brett!! burnt hands and lots of bad language!!) they admitted to filling to the level of the filler hole, best part of a litre too much!! So even the 'experts' get it wrong! :rofl:
if you are going to turbo the engine, you will trash the standard box in short order, follow Bretts advice and fit a VAG unit :approve: