What's new
There is more to life with TurboRenault.co.uk

Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • This section contains the archived boards. They should be read only. If you want a thread resurrecting please message admin and we can move into the live section

Gearbox woes

I blew one at 24k which Renault replaced. Yes I was messing around in the car but that's still no excuse for poorly engineered parts. One of the benefits of having RWD is that they're supposed to be more fun, I bet that if all of us knew that we wouldn't be endangering our gearboxes by having some practice time drifting, we'd all be better drivers of our cars by now.

I think the fact of the matter is for everyone reading this, your gearbox is RUBBISH and it will break when pushed. If you get a Quaife one now, not only will you have piece of mind that your box is not going to blow, but you'll also be getting MUCH more power transferred to the wheels!
 
Defo want this to happen but owners seem to fall into two categories; modders and standard. Within modders there is also a sub-set of the hardcore - well in Vee terms anyway - e.g engine, wheels, colour changes etc and the more cautious e.g backboxers.

I think it's going to be very difficult to convinve 9 other people that they should part with their hard earned to upgrade a box that works perfectly well (for now of course...). I'm sure that when the time comes and their box kicks the bucket they'll consider upgrading but I'm not sure many will upgrade for the sake of upgrading. I of course am more than happy to be proved wrong!!

I know of at least two other owners who have box troubles. With you and me Matt that makes 4 of us. Only need six more to get this thing going. As I said no particular timeframe on this so I'm happy to wait. :approve:
 
i know its going off the boil a little but staying with the gearbox issue:
i have parked up at home a ph2 plate no 255, smashed heavy at the front but it does start and run, with a skate under the mashed area it does drive forwards and backwards, jacked up it goes through all the gears as it should, anyone interested?
this car is for sale, i know there has been talk of how much this went for as salvage but that info was phoney, the car was bought on a cash deal from the salvage for an undisclosed amount, i know this as fact as i know the person involved, the value got wrote down for tax but thats another story.
i say again, its for sale, it could be reshelled, if you can find one or broken for parts, just how much is a genuine complete running engine worth?
am open to offers but i will not answer stupid offers or stupid questions, no i will not break it as i am not well enough at the moment. 07889 153352.
this may help someone out.
 
MattGWilson":2bkckgqe said:
Just to clarify Spike, are you offering just the gearbox or the whole car?
Click to expand...

this car is for sale.

if someone wants to do a deal on the box as an exchange i dont have a problem but you will have to remove the box from the car, this will slaughter the price of the car so it wont be cheap.
 
I'm hoping that others will get on board re the Quaife option but a great alternative for someone perhaps. Would have loved to nick the engine out of your smashed one but thinking of going down the fully built route on my current engine.

Good luck with offloading it mate :approve:

P.s Woody might be interested in a gearbox swap.
 
The best thing to do regarding gearbox development would be to use one from a much more common model such as the the Traffic, Laguna, etc etc. This way the castings would be easier and cheaper to use as the main differences are in the ratio's, which will be changed anyway. Secondly, converting a gearbox from Helical cut to straight cut does not necessarly make them any stronger. The main advantages with sc gears over the more common helical cut is the fact less torque is lost through the gearbox and that side loads on the gears under acceleration and deceleration is pretty much non exsistent(inturn increases bearing life).

Thirdly . . . . . PRICE!!!!

I had a 1st and 2nd gear made once and it cost a bloody fortune. Bare in mind that very very common sccr kit cost in eccess of a grand just for the gear set alone.




My opinion..........DO IT!!!
 
Oldskoolbaby":3qay543z said:
The best thing to do regarding gearbox development would be to use one from a much more common model such as the the Traffic, Laguna, etc etc. This way the castings would be easier and cheaper to use as the main differences are in the ratio's, which will be changed anyway. Secondly, converting a gearbox from Helical cut to straight cut does not necessarly make them any stronger. The main advantages with sc gears over the more common helical cut is the fact less torque is lost through the gearbox and that side loads on the gears under acceleration and deceleration is pretty much non exsistent(inturn increases bearing life).

Thirdly . . . . . PRICE!!!!

I had a 1st and 2nd gear made once and it cost a bloody fortune. Bare in mind that very very common sccr kit cost in eccess of a grand just for the gear set alone.

My opinion..........DO IT!!!
Click to expand...


seems to me that brett has it in a nutshell, in my experience with looking at these the case gives way before the gearset. the case is not man enough to hold the bearing steady so then the bearing fails and pop goes the cluster.
if another model has a stronger case then use that otherwise strengthen the one you have.
personally i think they are all the same, and then to ratios, the differeces are so slight on things like the laguna that i defy anyone to notice the difference, just that there are the staid partnumber followers amongst us that would not have anything on their v6 that wasnt meant to be, so just fit another pk6 and have done with it, just select one with as near as you can ratios and drive the ruddy car.
also on ratios, anyone going for more performance will want to select different ratios anyway to hone in the new found EXPENSIVE power increase.

so brett, fully agree with you man, it would also be vey interesting to put 2 grands worth of internals in a box made out of melted pizza trays and bike wheels, just won't be as long before its bust in half.

all the best!
 
So what I'm hearing from Brett is that whilst a straight cut setup is not necessarily stronger it does decrease the loading on the bearings and therefore increase durability in the long-term.

What Spike is saying is that it actually might be the casing that's the problem and not the internals so I guess the best solution would be to have straight cut gears in a different box. Can the standard box be strengthened in any way? I think Duncan mentioned he'd strengthened his by freezing it or something? Could be getting mate of a mate info here though...

I've seen people mention Ford and Volvo gearboxs fondly in terms of strength and willingness to survive engine modifications. What about Supra boxes? I am wading well out of my depth here but Supra's have a 3.0 V6 so I guess matching it to the Vee's lump wouldn't be an issue?? (massively out of my depth here as I said!!)

Also, I assume there are places other than Quaife that can manufacture straight-cut gears, say, if only two or three of us are interested?
 
trouble is its all down to cost, yes, straight cut will give a better box in terms of strength, as brett said the side loadings are next to nothing but at what cost. the casing could be beefed up, by bracing and welding gussets it etc, time is money. another easy way is to buy a sequential from reno, big cost!
so which way to jump!
personally if my own box was toast i would buy another, either brand new (with warranty) or out of a boner (cheaper but no warranty) fit the same then get the original looked at professionally, and i dont mean at your local "gearboxes r us". 2k is a lot for a new box but lets get things in perspective.
if your washing machine at home breaks down (poss value 500 quid) you get someone out to fix it, they will charge a call out so it will be at least £100 at the end of the day. thats 20% of the item value to fix, and thats at only £100.........see my point, do you value your motor more than your washing machine???
 
SPIKE":3dkh3q4u said:
get the original looked at professionally
Click to expand...

Any recommendations?

Personally, as the vee will eventually become a third car I don't mind sending my current gearbox off. I just don't want to have to spend the same money twice, or three times, or four times etc etc as simply rebuilding to factory spec doesn't eliminate the inherent flaws.

Sadev would be awesome in theory but I think in practice it would be too costly to buy/install/match to the engine/maintain.

I think I'm going to have to speak to some sort of engineering company and see what they suggest!
 
Again, I agree with Spike here. Bracing the 'box (especially around the diff area), uprating the bearings where possible and looking into syncro life would be the answer if you were to fine tune it. Believe it or not but when the 'box is in bits, its very easy to do and would't cost a fortune if you know a good tig welder that is. The Sadev is an option and something I very seriously looked at and very nearly bought BUT it's designed torque capacity is not that great at all.

The year before last, myself and a friend looked into bolting a volvo and honda 'box to our LX7 V6. In my opinion, this is the single best solution as far as gaining massive strength, reliability, availability and low costs are concerned. The only parts that needed making were a bellhousing adaptor plate, a center driveshaft bearing housing (which enables them to be equal length), modified driveshaft and the gearbox mount. We guessed it would cost in the area of £4-500 plus the cost of the 'box which sould be sub £500. That would really be a fit and forget job as I've seen both gearboxes run upwards of 600bhp reliably. There are also loads of uprated parts for the honda box including dog box kits for the mentalists out there.

A good reference at the moment is actually in Practicle Performance Magazine. A fella is currently converting the peugeot equivalent of our engine and converting it to rwd for drag racing. It does look a bit Heith Robinson at the moment but the fundimentals are all bang on.
 
taipan":1yfj3r53 said:
Defo want this to happen but owners seem to fall into two categories; modders and standard. Within modders there is also a sub-set of the hardcore - well in Vee terms anyway - e.g engine, wheels, colour changes etc and the more cautious e.g backboxers.

I think it's going to be very difficult to convinve 9 other people that they should part with their hard earned to upgrade a box that works perfectly well (for now of course...). I'm sure that when the time comes and their box kicks the bucket they'll consider upgrading but I'm not sure many will upgrade for the sake of upgrading. I of course am more than happy to be proved wrong!!

I know of at least two other owners who have box troubles. With you and me Matt that makes 4 of us. Only need six more to get this thing going. As I said no particular timeframe on this so I'm happy to wait. :approve:
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM. Happy to join in the group buy - certainly would like to avoid any gearbox woes putting a damper on enjoying the Vee. Question at this point is whether the R&D and development work will apply to both the Phase 1 and Phase 2.

Question: Could Quaife do any preliminary investigative work should they be provided with a donor box? If so a cheap box can be sourced (as mentioend earlier in the thread) for say £500 and sent off to Quaife. Of course there will be a cost to this work, but it may not be that high but those who in pitch may need to be prepared to write it off if the project is not viable. Thoughts?

Dulan
 
Regarding your questions, the first thing would certainly be giving Quaife a gearbox but I wouldn't be a bit suprised if they turned it down until you gave them very firm numbers of how many people will be on to the buy. If a box was to be developed then it would definaty want to apply to both Phase 1 and 2 cars. I also think it would be very silly to develope one containing the same ratio's as either cars used out of the factory. Gearing one capable of 170mph at the redline would be pointless. Something around 135-140 with closer ratio's would be much more worth it.

Something that shouldn't be forgot is that a gearset will not make your gearbox last longer and if straight cut gears are used, don't expect the same rifinement as an OEM 'box even if it still is an all syncro type. You get much more back lash for a start and then you have the noise to contend with . . . . . . . . . .which will out shout the loudest of exhaust notes! There is always the option of developing one with either helical cut or semi helical cut which is something in between. Also the syncro's themselves!! These seem to be the things that are letting go on standard cars so they are more important than anything else.
 
Lankan":2ir27ety said:
taipan":2ir27ety said:
Defo want this to happen but owners seem to fall into two categories; modders and standard. Within modders there is also a sub-set of the hardcore - well in Vee terms anyway - e.g engine, wheels, colour changes etc and the more cautious e.g backboxers.

I think it's going to be very difficult to convinve 9 other people that they should part with their hard earned to upgrade a box that works perfectly well (for now of course...). I'm sure that when the time comes and their box kicks the bucket they'll consider upgrading but I'm not sure many will upgrade for the sake of upgrading. I of course am more than happy to be proved wrong!!

I know of at least two other owners who have box troubles. With you and me Matt that makes 4 of us. Only need six more to get this thing going. As I said no particular timeframe on this so I'm happy to wait. :approve:
Click to expand...

Sent you a PM. Happy to join in the group buy - certainly would like to avoid any gearbox woes putting a damper on enjoying the Vee. Question at this point is whether the R&D and development work will apply to both the Phase 1 and Phase 2.

Question: Could Quaife do any preliminary investigative work should they be provided with a donor box? If so a cheap box can be sourced (as mentioend earlier in the thread) for say £500 and sent off to Quaife. Of course there will be a cost to this work, but it may not be that high but those who in pitch may need to be prepared to write it off if the project is not viable. Thoughts?

Dulan
Click to expand...

again i am in agreement with brett (should really stop this), £500 is a drop in the ocean in r&d worlds, more like £5k to get this sorted, when the group buy for the diffs happened these were a grand so a complete box has got to be £2 -£3 k at least! multiply that by a minimum of 10 units and thats £25,000.............
an apt description is "like pissing into the wind"
 
Yeah like I said earlier on, the cost to design and develope a gear kit is massive. Like you say regarding the LSD's, its big money and that was for something that was pretty much all tried and tested with and on other types of cars. Im sure the clever blokes at Quaife didn't take long to adapt the design on CAD to suit the pk6 gearbox. With the gearkit though, it will be from scratch. And bare in mind we aren't talking of developing something from stainless tube here. Its not a case of welding something together and tweaking it here and there. Manufacturing these parts from cast and forged parts take an awfull lot of work and money.


Could I throw a spanner and idea in the works??
 
hello everyone just been reading about a group buy on a quaife gearbox .i think this would be so noisey in the clio has i have one in my escort cosworth and it does not make the car a pleasure to drive like the clio.

I only had one fitted too escort because i blown 3 gearboxes because of the power 525bhp ,there is another gearbox rebuiler called GEARS in ford car side i well ring monday 15th to see if they do anything as my box is the same :race:
 
So costwise are we saying a change of box would be more economical? The aim is to get a strong box capable of taking the oem torque and more if engine mods are done. I couldn't care less about keeping things standard and the pk6 has disappointed me.

I don't think Quaife is the right company for the development - for a start they don't sound keen. Maybe some straight cut gears in a Volvo box. Isn't this something you've looked into a lot Brett? Is fitting a different box into the current space the main headache?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top