Engine specs......

[Red21]

Started this thread so the liner thread will not be contaminated with idle chitchat,

My engine spec when it was built in 2001 was:
Arias forged pistons with standard liners
Crankshaft, Flywheel and clutch balanced +/-0.05grams
Connecting rods and Pistons balanced +/- 0.5 grams
Standard Renault main and Big end bearings, Renault thrustbearings
Kent F528 camshaft
Valve clearance 0.25mm(0.010?)
Inlet cam lift 5.69mm(0.224?)
Exhaust cam lift 5.69mm(0.224?)
Duration @ 0.25mm valve clearance 278[SUP]0[/SUP]
Duration @ 1.0mm valve clearance 219[SUP]0[/SUP]
Full lift @ 110[SUP]0[/SUP]ATDC
Low compression, polished & ported cylinder head with1.6mm (0.0625?) valve seat contact face, standard valve guides.
Cylinder head volume 63.2cc (58.5cc pen marked) (43.93ccstandard??)
((58.15factory))
Compression ratio 7.6:1
Mobil 1 Motorsport oil 15W50

Turbo specs once we finalised the ideal for the engine at the time:

52 trim, GT32 specification71mm high flow compressor wheel.

0.60 A/R highflow TB34 ?Cosworth? compressor-housing C.N.C. machined for maximum airflowcapability.

Left handthread shaft with GT28 series 76 trim ?low inertia? Inconel turbine wheel,fitted with a racing specification seal ring for low backpressure exhaust systems.

Modifiedbearing housing fitted with angular contact twin roller bearing cartridge formaximum thrust load capability and fastest ?spool time?.

Speciallymodified ?Cosworth? turbine housing, 0.61 A/R with ported & polished inletthroat.

We did at first go the full high spec then low spec with the turbo but it didn't get the results that we were looking for regard low speed pick up, high engine out put.

The inlet/fueling side I have 803 injectors, 044 pump, Fastchip modified ECU, Green air filter, Pace intercoolers, 3" exhaust front to rear.
My rpm limit is 6750rpm but I only use 6500.

The last RR session we had the following figures for 1.5bar boost:
264hp @ 4392rpm 290ftlb torque at the wheels

289hp 314ftlb @ the flywheel



A new build engine with lighter & stronger internals is in progress (well it has been for the past 5 years give or take)

 

[DaveL485]

A new build engine with lighter & stronger internals is in progress (well it has been for the past 5 years give or take)
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I feel that pain mate.

Very nice though, great spec and excellent power. Whats the target for the new build?

 

[Red21]

I feel that pain mate.

Very nice though, great spec and excellent power. Whats the target for the new build?

Roughly the same or better,
I have no target or magic out put figure just a solid engine that can take 6500rpm for longer periods.


View attachment 1900View attachment 1901

 

[Haz]

nice spec, i take it thats setup for track/sprints? out of curiosity whats the reason you have choosen that setup,
you seem to have very low compression, will this not allow alot more boost than your running?
or is the fueling maxed out on the 803's?
your cam doesn't seem to have much lift, and do you use a vernier? i only ask as your peak torque could be higher if you plan to rev to 6500. (ah just noticed in last pics )
and do you not rev that much higher due to the power/cam tailing off?
just interested

 

[Red21]

nice spec, i take it thats setup for track/sprints? out of curiosity whats the reason you have choosen that setup,
you seem to have very low compression, will this not allow alot more boost than your running?
or is the fueling maxed out on the 803's?
your cam doesn't seem to have much lift, and do you use a vernier? i only ask as your peak torque could be higher if you plan to rev to 6500. (ah just noticed in last pics )
and do you not rev that much higher due to the power/cam tailing off?
just interested

The car is driven on the roads so it isn't entirely competition orintated regards it's possible potential, I could run a higher boost/ignition advance etc with the compression ratio that I have but the engine has more or less been solid for the past ten years with a reliable output, as for the cam lift the figures I got were from Kent but some places where it has been RR think the figures are wrong but until I do a full check I can only quote the numbers supplied.
The injectors are definitely not maxed out and when I get around to finishing the next generation engine with full on controls the output may be more???
There is no point in reving a turbo car past 6500 unless you have a dinner plate size turbo which if you had would not do any thing below xxrpm then it will be every thing and no smooth control.
In it's early days I use to have a MD80 (265hp 397Nm) which produced good power & torque up at the higher rpm range but I was losing out on slow speed pickup (2300-2500rpm before noted boost) were now the boost level starts at around 1800rpm and can be held in to the 5-6K range but with no more power, the rest of the rpm is for road speed or holding in gear a little longer for certain situations.
I did have other engine /transmision plans for 2012 but they have been put on hold again unfortuantly, only manageing the interior revamp & new tyres for this year.

 

[Haz]

so there is still more to be had on your current setup if you chose to push it further then, good stuff. have you found the limits of boost and timing and reduced them to be safer? or could there possibly alot more to gain? i would have thought the lift would be 9 or 10.69 but varies on where the manufactures measure from i guess.
do you know what percent the injectors are at, and are you using the std fuel reg?
regards spool up time, the last set up on my 5 wasn't that lairy a cam, just a n/a cam from a 1700, more duration and lift but slight overlap so not perfect but improvement over std. the turbo was laggy, started making boost 3600 and not at full boost until 4800, but i just got used to tootling at higher revs about 3000revs round town.
at least some progress has been made with the car tho

 

[Red21]

Potentialy a lot more to come, but I am currently running a modified standard ECU Which limits it in a way that suits me(bank balence now)
The injectors are appox 60-70% but that only calculated figure based on the injection duration required to keep a given air ratio during set up runs.
I am working on my own maps based on the standard ecu so if this works out I may keep it on just for the ease of system knowledge.

 

[jacw]

It's not fitted in a 21 but it might be of some interest. 2010 Engine spec:

Renault 4 cylinder 1995cc J7R 720 aluminium block with under piston oil jets & modified to accept turbo oil return feed.
Forged pistons, 8:1 compression (JE)
Steel con rods (Phoenix)
Con rod bolts (ARP)
Ductile liners (Westwood)
Steel billet crank (Arrow Precision)
Modified steel sump with trap door baffles (JGE)
Uprated oil pressure relief valve spring to 70psi (Springcoil)
Cylinder head Renault 21 TXi 12 valve (skimmed 1.5mm, flowed & ported to manifold -JGE)
Cylinder head gasket Renault 21 turbo (Victor Reinz)
Exhaust valves in Nimonic 80A (G&S Valves)
Dual valve springs (Isky)
Valve spring retainers (JGE)
2:1 ratio rocker arm pads Balinit C coated (Oerlikon)
Billet camshaft 275?inlet 264?exhaust (Cat Cams)
Vernier camshaft pulley (Cat Cams, modified to fit- JGE)
Sequential fuelling timed with camshaft pulley sensor (fabricated-JGE/Marelli)
High flow fuel rail (QEP)
Fuel pressure regulator (Aeromotive)
381cc/min injectors (Bosch 0280150803)
60mm throttle body (Cosworth)
Custom DCOE inlet manifold, (modified -JGE)
Plenum (modified Cosworth-JGE)
RS500 cone filter (Pipercross)
Stainless steel exhaust manifold (FBI moteurs)
Turbo (Garrett GT2860RS with .63 AR turbine, Ultimate wastegate & 3? Vband connector)
Air/water intercooler with 4 x Laminova cores (Advanced (H Intercoolers)
Intercooler water pump 80 litres/minute (Davies Craig)
Engine loom (DC Electronics)
Coil pack (Ford)
HT leads (Magnecor 8.5mm high temp)
Spark plugs BCR8ES (NGK)
3 Bar MAP Sensor (Ford)
3 way boost control valve (Motec)
36-1crank timing trigger wheel & sensor (Motec/Marelli)
Ecu (Motec M4)
Main loom Raychem System 25 derivative (Grant Steventon)
3? stainless steel exhaust downpipe (APT)
3? stainless steel silencer (Borla)
Steel billet lightweight flywheel 4.5kg, (TTV Racing)
200mm clutch pressure plate & organic friction disc (Sachs Racing)
Modified Renault UN1 transaxle (BPA Engineering) with ATB diff (Quaife) and single piece mainshaft (EMCO Gears)
Ratios:
1st 3.00,
2nd 1.94,
3rd 1.38,
4th 1.04
5th 0.82
F/D 3.44
Engine: Built, dyno?d & installed by Julian Godfrey Engineering Ltd (www.racetuners.com)
Engine mapping undertaken on Superflow 902 engine dyno with all ancillaries fitted, (inlet filter, air/water intercooler, exhaust system, silencer etc), using Esso 97 octane pump fuel
359.8 BHP @ 6,600 rpm, 325.6 ft/lbs torque @ 4,300 rpm, boost 22.3 - 23.05psi
Engine cut out @ 6,900 rpm
Engine oil: Valvoline VR1 10W60 Semi Synthetic Racing Oil
Gearbox oil: ELF TRX 75W-80

The objective of this build was to have as close to n/a responsiveness as possible.

John

View attachment 1908View attachment 1909

 

[craig21t]

That John is a work of art. Hats of to you.:applause:

 

[ferswin]

Wow some serious machinery on this thread well done to both of you! Really good to see, hopefully getting mine decently spec'ed soon.

 

[Tony]

Well done john, those are some very good figures for pump fuel. If you don't mind me asking how much did julian charge you for that lot.

 

[Red21]

That is some engine there John, But I do have to ask the same question as Tony, how much???

 

[Andyquadra]

If you don't mind me asking how much did julian charge you for that lot.

That is some engine there John, But I do have to ask the same question as Tony, how much???

It is a very serious engine and so is the 8v 21T engine that I built for John.
Engine spec is
Renault 4 cylinder 1995cc J7R 720 aluminium block with under piston oil jets & modified to accept turbo oil return feed.
Standard crank lightened, balanced & knife edged.
Standard con rods balanced. (Serdi)
Super Ductile liners (Westwood)
Forged pistons, 8.1 compression (Wossner)
Renault 21 Turbo cylinder head, bigger 46.6mm inlet valves, uprated dual valve springs, dural caps, (Ferry Developments)
Camshaft 268? duration (Cat Cams)
Vernier camshaft pulley (Cat Cams)
Inlet manifold (21 Turbo)
55mm throttle body (Renault 21/25 TXi)
Plenum (Renault 21/25 TXi)
Injectors 660cc (Siemens)
3 Bar MAP Sensor (Ford)
Turbo (Garrett GT2860RS dual ball bearing)
Double piston dump valve with 25mm neck (Collins)
3 way boost control valve (Motec)
36-1 crank timing trigger wheel & sensor (Motec/Marelli)
Ecu (Motec M4)
Engine loom (DC Electronics)
Stainless steel exhaust manifold (FBI moteurs)
3? stainless steel exhaust (APT)
3? stainless steel silencer (Borla)
Steel billet flywheel (TTV Racing Components)
200mm clutch pressure plate & twin friction disc (Sachs Racing rated @ 480 ft/lbs)
http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv3/Andyquadra/PICT0219.jpg

But as the saying goes, if one needs to ask, one can't afford

Andy

 

[DaveL485]

But as the saying goes, if one needs to ask, one can't afford

Definitely this!

360bhp shown on a proper engine dyno. Not only that but look at that torque spread!

All those years i've been trying to build a 12v Turbo (nearly 8 years) convinced it'd yield results, although i'm pleased I was right it's a shame I got beaten to it by someone with a bit (lot) more time and resource. I have to say as well without assistance on Valves and Springs from jacw and i'd still be struggling.

Maybe i'll have to go for a nasty cam to steal an edge. A really nasty cam. And Direct Port Nitrous.

Just call me......Phil.

 

[Andyquadra]

Thought I'd better list the spec of my engine....


Renault 21 Turbo Engine Spec

Head
CTM did all the work
2mm bigger stainless steel inlet and exhaust valves, bigger 3 angle valve seats to match. Ported and flowed
Standard inlet and exhaust manifolds matched to the head.
Uprated valve springs
Piper 276 cam and cat cams adjustable vernier

Block
Perfect bore steel liners (yes I have had the rings coated!)
Block skimmed so liners are 0.1-0.15m proud without liner seals
Crank has been worked on by CTM, lightened and balanced, as have the rods
JE custom pistons

Transmission
Flywheel modified to take AP 240mm extra heavy duty clutch (600ftlb)
Gearbox spaced 10mm back from block using skimmed down bell housing to accommodate AP clutch
AP release bearing custom mounted to fit standard clutch fork
Renault 30 primary shaft (10mm longer that 21T)

Air feed
K&N Group A filter
GT2871R
Radtech custom RS style intercooler
21 TXI plenum chamber and 55mm throttle body

Fuel system
All fuel fittings are -6 apart from the pump feed which is -8
Bosch 941 pump (no pressure reg) used as a lift pump to supply a swirl pot where the battery used to sit
Bosch 044 pump regulated by an Aeromotive A1000-6
Siemens injectors


Adaptronic ECU
Marelli 3 bar map sensor
GM Electronic boost control valve
36-1 timing disc welded to the front pulley, Marelli pick up sensor

 

[DaveL485]

Stuff

You forgot-
Management
Ignition
Exhaust
Eleventy gazillion gauges

---------- Post added at 102 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 AM ----------

OK, i'll bite.

1995cc, J7R bottom end with L&B, knife edged crank, Polished and stress relieved rods, Forged pistons, Billet Steel liners with wire-ringing, Ti-Ni coated rings. Compression ratio unknown, as yet.
R21 TXi cylinder head with Nimonic Exhaust valves*, double valve springs on all 12 valves*, Custom retainers and collets**. Was planning on a Catcams 12v-Turbo profiled cam but might go for something a bit bigger- we'll see**. Adjustable cam pulley, Head fully ported with the bottom of the ports slimmed down to improve feed to the short side of the valve.
Matched manifolds with a 4-branch equal length exhaust manifold, skimmed and modified with a T3 flange welded on to take the turbo. 38mm External wastegate working off a Manifold-Turbo spacer plate with a 1" screamer pipe exiting under the front bumper. Cossie .48 exhaust housing with internal wastegate welded up, hybrid T3 currently in play but have a .50 AR T4 in the parts bin. Full 3" turbo-back mandrel bent exhaust running under the rear axle with one silencer. FMIC fitted in front of the rad, 3" thick, 3" end caps and pipe fittings, 3" pipework with the smallest pipe run I could design, R21 TXi Throttle body & Plenum and an adapter in the pipe run for Air Temp, pre-butterfly boost signal and a 1" take off which Y-splits for the DV and IACV (Although the plan is to build an 8-injector inlet manifold with a ~70mm throttle body made from a Cosworth manifold, the TXi manifold and a custom swedish style plenum and a custom fuel rails).
2 fuel pumps, 1 lift supplying a swirl pot in the battery tray and 1 pressure that lives by the swirl pot. Pumps are OE for now but will be beefed up before fitting the 12v.
Full Standalone engine management running the show, with extra controls for the Boost solenoid (From a Greddy Profec-A), Fans and the like. 36-1 triggerwheel on the crank pulley. Dual switchable maps, launch control, flat shifting....all the bells and whistles that go on your xmas list.
Just for fun, and I do have the kit at home, i'll probably sling my Nitrous Oxide kit on it too. It's a Cold Fusion wet kit, single point injection with a 10lb bottle but I have been and bought a set of four stainless foggers, eight distribution blocks and a few other items to turn it into a direct port kit running 25bhp per cylinder. I'll run this with a separate dedicated fuel pump & reg that only runs when its armed.
Ally flywheel with replaceable insert and the timing teeth chopped off**, 4-paddle unsprung AP friction plate which ive ended up with thanks to Mr Atkins with probably a Helix cover** and OE release bearing.

*In progress but not in my hands yet
**Still to buy (

Big hole in my bank account.

 

[administrator]

Both your specs sound crap.

Ahem.

 

[Andyquadra]

You forgot-
Management
Ignition
Exhaust
Eleventy gazillion gauges

---------- Post added at 102 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:59 AM ----------

OK, i'll bite.

1995cc, J7R bottom end with L&B, knife edged crank, Polished and stress relieved rods, Forged pistons, Billet Steel liners with wire-ringing, Ti-Ni coated rings. Compression ratio unknown, as yet.
R21 TXi cylinder head with Nimonic Exhaust valves*, double valve springs on all 12 valves*, Custom retainers and collets**. Was planning on a Catcams 12v-Turbo profiled cam but might go for something a bit bigger- we'll see**. Adjustable cam pulley, Head fully ported with the bottom of the ports slimmed down to improve feed to the short side of the valve.
Matched manifolds with a 4-branch equal length exhaust manifold, skimmed and modified with a T3 flange welded on to take the turbo. 38mm External wastegate working off a Manifold-Turbo spacer plate with a 1" screamer pipe exiting under the front bumper. Cossie .48 exhaust housing with internal wastegate welded up, hybrid T3 currently in play but have a .50 AR T4 in the parts bin. Full 3" turbo-back mandrel bent exhaust running under the rear axle with one silencer. FMIC fitted in front of the rad, 3" thick, 3" end caps and pipe fittings, 3" pipework with the smallest pipe run I could design, R21 TXi Throttle body & Plenum and an adapter in the pipe run for Air Temp, pre-butterfly boost signal and a 1" take off which Y-splits for the DV and IACV (Although the plan is to build an 8-injector inlet manifold with a ~70mm throttle body made from a Cosworth manifold, the TXi manifold and a custom swedish style plenum and a custom fuel rails).
2 fuel pumps, 1 lift supplying a swirl pot in the battery tray and 1 pressure that lives by the swirl pot. Pumps are OE for now but will be beefed up before fitting the 12v.
Full Standalone engine management running the show, with extra controls for the Boost solenoid (From a Greddy Profec-A), Fans and the like. 36-1 triggerwheel on the crank pulley. Dual switchable maps, launch control, flat shifting....all the bells and whistles that go on your xmas list.
Just for fun, and I do have the kit at home, i'll probably sling my Nitrous Oxide kit on it too. It's a Cold Fusion wet kit, single point injection with a 10lb bottle but I have been and bought a set of four stainless foggers, eight distribution blocks and a few other items to turn it into a direct port kit running 25bhp per cylinder. I'll run this with a separate dedicated fuel pump & reg that only runs when its armed.
Ally flywheel with replaceable insert and the timing teeth chopped off**, 4-paddle unsprung AP friction plate which ive ended up with thanks to Mr Atkins with probably a Helix cover** and OE release bearing.

*In progress but not in my hands yet
**Still to buy (

Big hole in my bank account.

thats more of a wish list isn't it Dave:dog:

 

[craig21t]

Dave said "Ally flywheel with replaceable insert and the timing teeth chopped off"

What does the starter run on now then?

 

[danb]

crank handle out the front