Electric Fuel Pump

[Spen]

Hi has anyone converted their car to run an electric fuel pump? Can you tell me if they made any modifications to the tank pick up? I am trying to replicate a friends set up on a different car using Astra GTE fuel pump, 10mm feed lines and 8mm return, Mallpassi regulator and GT Turbo carb. Thanks for any help !

 

[mrdini]

Hi, I've modified a tank sender for the same reason but if I'm honest my one was a bit shady , I basically cut off the steel feed and return pipes from the sender disc plate / drilled through the holes to open them out and used some copper pipe 8ish mm but it's metric and soldered it into place in the disc using the solder able 90 degree elbows to keep it low and get the 90 degrees bend,,,, I'm not sure how ideal soldering copper and steel is but it all held up and I've used car a fair bit like this! Maybe it could be braised in for a better result! Bear in mind though 2 cars I know are running blow through with the standard sender upto around 180 hp,,or 1 bar,,, I felt happier with an increase on the diameter as original is so puny,,,,if you do modify one take so pictures before so you have reference for pipe shape and direction. Hope others can tell their thoughts and opinions too.

 

[mrdini]

t not sure how you would calculate if the standard sender would be restrictive! The malpassi regulator I have one , but I just use a gt turbo one as its preset to the carb and a tad simpler to plumb in I seem to remember!

 

[Spen]

Thanks for your detailed response ! It was very helpfull, I was having a look around the tank last night and as im not looking forward to taking it out noticed that there is a banjo bolt and small section of pipe on the bottom of the tank, I think it is linking to the reserve tank, I was thinking I could tee into this for a feed (May need a filter before the pump) and drill and reem out the banjo if needed, use the existing larger bore fuel line as the return and cut the smaller return line back and either cap it or use it as a vent ? Can anyone see a problem with this set up ?, I may be going a bit OTT as I am only looking to run around 15psi but I want to get the fueling as spot on as possible.

 

[mrdini]

1, its not too bad a job to remove and re-fit the tank.
2, what's your tank condition as I've seen a few very rusty inside.
3, personally I replaced both feed and return as the originals are plastic and very old.
4, your idea sounds ok, have you still got the steel belly plate on your car that protects the tank drain banjo? As that banjo is a low point and liable to get snagged off without protection.
5, I had a tank powder coated when it was baked the banjo fixing threaded insert in the drain at bottom fell out its soldered in and solder melted/ not sure if its silver solder but look up a tightening torque if you can so if you take bolt out don't over tighten it!
6,even if you have lowered the comp ratio ideally you want a proper air/ratio monitoring gadget to set up carb to run a bar of boost as I've a mate who destroyed a fresh engine recently overboosting
7, my friend cut a disc out of his boot floor directly over sender unit in tank so he could access sender without removing tank all the time , then made a plate to fix over the hole with another boot floor section so pretty neat and removable.
8, I used a gt turbo fuel pump and filter with its original mounting bracket as its neat and inline fits under near reserve tank bolted up nicely,
9, is your comp ratio standard as unless your good with carb mods maybe, you will only be able to run 11-12 psi unless you have ideas to combat detonation.
10, if your going to be using a bar of boost you should be having a think about ways of firming up the gearbox/engine on its mounts as the power increase with racing starts and hooligan driving can] make the engine and box jump around a bit and can shear its mounts .
11, I'm no expert or car tuner builder I'm just posting what I think hope its of some help

 

[Spen]

Wow thanks again for the excellent reply, you have given me a lot to think about,

Firstly the Tank belly plate has long gone so may have to fab something up as I plan to lower the car a spline or so and I live in speedbump central.

Being that ive only owned and driven GT Turbos I didnt think a Bar of Boost would cause to many probs, whats the difference on a Gordini? Is it the compression ratio or the renix which might cause the detonation over 12psi or something else?

The Carb I have is Jetted for 15psi and may run progressivley richer as you turn down the boost, 15 psi will be the max id want to run and would probably be happy with a bit less, was thinking around 160bhp would be entertaining enough, but then boost is addictive !

Thanks again for your help !

I plan to get some kind of lamda sensor and gauge.

What mods have you seen to steady the engine and box? Maybee some similar sized diesel mounts would work, lucky as the shape is very basic

 

[sparkie]

gordini turbo is 8.7:1, gt turbo is 7.9:1.....

its easy to get power out of the engine. Its the 180mm clutch you'll have problems with. A paddle is a must! - i bought an uprated non paddle type and its slipping at 12-13psi on std compression.

 

[mrdini]

gordini turbo is 8.7:1, gt turbo is 7.9:1.....

its easy to get power out of the engine. Its the 180mm clutch you'll have problems with. A paddle is a must! - i bought an uprated non paddle type and its slipping at 12-13psi on std compression.

That's a shame with the clutch I was hoping it might of been ok for you,,, looks like ill need a paddle plate too then,
Spen regards my statement on the boost limit ,, that's only my experience with the limit at 11-12 psi and that's without a lambda gauge and testing modification to carb to improve fueling , I basically had a carb which had been re jetted for more fuel ect but not jetted for my Gordini so it may be that with some testing / experimenting in the right direction more boost is possible with standard compression.
As its been said before if you lower compression it effects off boost performance so I guess the ideal is to work with the high company.
Just thought I'd warn you incase you went crazy with a bleed valve.
My car made around 130bhp at the wheels at 11 psi I think . And if memory is correct 1 psi gives around 10bhp compared to 5 bhp on a gt turbo.

 

[mrdini]

With the engine and gearbox mounts I'm not sure why its such a problem as the turbo2 s use the same mounts I'm not sure if they have this problem? I've heard there are up rated turbo 2 engine mounts available but I'd guess their price is also up rated, if you find any suitable option please let us know. I'm not sure how to combat the problem I was thinking something along the lines of shock absorbers that come on motorbike steering strategically place to steady things maybe a bit far fetched!!!

 

[Spen]

Thanks again for all the info ! It has been most helpful, after talk of paddle clutches and shearing mounts I think I have underestimated whats needed to run the boost I had in mind so for now Im just gonna get it on the road first and get it set up to be reliableish? as I have a set of standard jets too... then have a play at a later date, will let you all know how the leccy pump conversion goes.

 

[mrdini]

Fair play, hope I've not put you off doing what you wanted, I have to say at the 11-12psi that I was running my mounts have been ok but 2 others that I know who were @ 1 bar plus had the mount problems but 1 car was doing sprints and the other was driving like he stole it and qtr mile up pod, so I could be leaning toward over cautious but its better to be aware of what could be to come!
Overall I much prefer the gt turbo carb and intercooler to standard as it frees up so much space in the bay and does away with the possible niggly carb problems that my car was having, it's easy to get up and running, if you had all the bits to hand it's a days work! And the inlet manifold can be chopped down in height so it clears the bonnet.
Ideally you should use a atmo manifold as its water heated to stop the carb freezing.

 

[r5gordini]

Interesting conversation. I am running an electric pump - mounted under the floor of the car. I've used a Filter King regulator and a Facet fast road electronic pump (I think - it's nearly 9 years ago that I fitted it).

All works great! I am running the standard carb, slightly rejetted. The boost gauge nearly hits the end of the red zone. When I had the turbo rebuilt, the guy set the wastegate at 0.8 bar. The turbo also has other tweaks. Not sure what, but I think it has a "larger" compressor. Whatever, it doesn't produce boost much earlier, but when it does, the results are much more dramatic and once it's on boost, it builds to max boost much quicker.

My engine has a mild-road camshaft and a few other tweaks. No idea what power output but I estimate about 130bhp, maybe a bit more. No detonation to speak of!

Andrew

 

[mrdini]

Hi Andrew did you say @ Kent meet the the engine builder reduced you piston height a little?

 

[mrdini]

Will be good to see what effect ignition control has to your car Andrew aside from helping with the niggly misfires ect should be quite usefull I'd imagine!
Spen- as Andrew has said you can get good power increases without changing to blow through, I wonder how far its been taken before there must be people out there that have taken this to the limit would be nice to have a powerfull Gordini with original suck through setup.

 

[sparkie]

my suck through effort.....

 

[r5gordini]

Yes - CR is 8.0:1 on my car. Not sure exactly how this was achieved. Sparkie - is your setup some kind of charge cooler? Do you get fuel condensing inside it? How does it run off boost?

I find that running off boost for long periods (trundling through town, etc.), means the car starts to choke up and misfire, until I floor it, then I get loads of smoke out the back and it settles down again!

Here's the engine build sheet. It was a Salv Sacco special. Quite pleased I got him to do it!



Andrew

 

[mrdini]

Tidy , have you found the boost limit with this setup sparky?

 

[sparkie]

it is a charge cooler set up.
it used to run ok off boost.- no pooling as far as i could see.
i run a dump valve built into the lobster link pipe without any vac feed to act as a blow off valve just in case i get any blow back from the inlet manifold - it would pop the chargecooler otherwise.
i need a better clutch - 12-13psi and the uprated normal style i put in slips slightly

 

[Spen]

Hey no dont worry you havent put me off anything, you have really been very helpful just maybee having a rethink on how much boost I want but wont realy know until I get it on the road, then I can have a play, I have some standard jets too to get it up and running.

Was looking at the gearbox mounts and was suprised how unfirm they actually are, they have a gap all around between the rubber and metal casing so I may try filling this with polyurethane which should help, the engine mounts may be upgraded by finding something similar sized from demon tweeks or maybee kit car supplies?

Thanks for the details on what you have done to run whatever power. Most helpful ! Any other advice please feel free to post here.

 

[mrdini]

Yes spen the box mounts are shocking I had the same ideas, also engine ones if I'm correct from memory the rubber blocks are just bonded to metal work and may seperate when under heavy torque?