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Clutch + Flywheel
- Thread starter PeteH
- Start date
matt.v10":12adlqtq said:
I'm sad, but not that sad Matt 
matt.v10":12adlqtq said:
Seems Renault's approach to building cars is the same as my approach to DIY; "that'll do". lol
James posted that one page up in another topic. Sure there will be others lying about somewhere. Would be a fascinating read really :approve:
Ha.... I thought with the mods you were doing to your car it was maybe a routine thing to take notes... I have no idea... :rofl:
It is a nice idea sorting out the details did'nt bother with.
Agree if James sees this posts then it would be great have a look at any other note Renault wrote about the car :approve:
It is a nice idea sorting out the details did'nt bother with.
Agree if James sees this posts then it would be great have a look at any other note Renault wrote about the car :approve:
I think its a great idea to get rid of the scrap DMF crap, seconded only by my high recomendation of going to scott at SG Motorsport to get this done, there are few who really understand the true mechanics of this mod, and even fewer who are prepared to get our hands dirty, this is a good mod on any vehicle, however. and there always is one or a few howevers: the clutch driven plate MUST have a damper in the centre, the std clutch on these does not, damage to the drive train WILL occur if this is not fitted. also on some vehicles the DMF is part of the balance sequence of the crankshaft, on SOME vehicles the crankshafts are balanced to specs with the DMF in mind, on a road car with relatively low rpm's this is not an issue, but i would not recommend fitment to any engine that is going to be used to the limits to have a single mass fitted without a full crank balance, The stock reno balance is just not accurate enough, the DMF as well as a damper takes the harmonic out of the crank at high rpm to prevent damage, and by damage i mean SNAPPED CRANKS! Trust me, this is my area.
Incedentally, it seems it is not the excess rpm that does most damage it is high rpm downshifts, this is cos the ECU limits the upshift rpm but cannot limit the downshift speed, anyone who is using one of these Reno V6 motors in any sort of aggression should also remember that the rods are made of chocolate and do have elastic properties over the 7200 rpm limit, again, trust me.
Incedentally, it seems it is not the excess rpm that does most damage it is high rpm downshifts, this is cos the ECU limits the upshift rpm but cannot limit the downshift speed, anyone who is using one of these Reno V6 motors in any sort of aggression should also remember that the rods are made of chocolate and do have elastic properties over the 7200 rpm limit, again, trust me.
Good info Spike. Do you mean the Phase 2 clutch does not have the damper you refer to above, but the Phase 1 item does? I was told (by TTV) that the Phase 1 clutch has a torsion friction hub that makes it compatible with the TTV flywheel (Scott endorsed this too).SPIKE":1iko4yr8 said:
As regards downshifts, indeed limiters are usually not active on downshifts so very easy to over-rev, and if the V6 is as fragile as you state above any missed gear (or rather selecting the wrong gear) on downshifts can cause havoc! :s Is there a way to check the ECU for over-revs? I know some cars have this stored in the ECU (referred to as the Rev2 range).
So for a man who is not so technical could you just clarify that you think the pahse 1 clutch and TTV is a good modification, especially when done by scott.
However you should also check you have the damper in the centre.
What else should you do regarding the crankshaft balance? or is this what the damper is for?
:approve:
(Dulan you beat me to it)
However you should also check you have the damper in the centre.
What else should you do regarding the crankshaft balance? or is this what the damper is for?
:approve:
(Dulan you beat me to it)
My opinion but if you stick to OEM spec ph1 clutch with a TTV lightened flywheel on a ph2 you should be ok unless raising rev ceiling by other tuning , as stated crank balance will be a factor above the standard 7200 rpm. If you want more than this then dynamic balancing is required and better rods.
Most modern cars use DMF for NVH and torgue reasons. ( NVH being - noise, vibration. And harshness.) modern car buyers wanting quieter , less vibration and harshness in there vehicles.
Spinning up a great big dual mass flywheel enhances torque.. Don't forget most modern cars are pretty much double the weight of the 70/80 or even 90s vehicles and require different engine dynamics.
Most modern cars use DMF for NVH and torgue reasons. ( NVH being - noise, vibration. And harshness.) modern car buyers wanting quieter , less vibration and harshness in there vehicles.
Spinning up a great big dual mass flywheel enhances torque.. Don't forget most modern cars are pretty much double the weight of the 70/80 or even 90s vehicles and require different engine dynamics.
Got a bit late coming back to this as I was talking to peteh on the phone. the above comment is a valid one, but I do not agree with the 7200 limit part. I feel that the 7200 limit is a good limit to stick to with the DMF fitted with a standard balance, by fitting a lighter flywheel the motor will spin up better and quicker but the ratio of weight to the crankshaft with the DMF is quite high but put a single mass on there and the weight will be less, so any imbalance in the crank assembly (and there is loads as these are a factory stock balance) will become more apparent, you as a driver will probably not notice it, but it will be there. this is where the problem occurs, as he imbalance becomes more critical as the revs rise or the excess weight is removed, same deal.EEE007":311al2p4 said:
MATT: Believe it buddy, this happens. it does not have anything to do with unsympathetic drivers though. it just is the amount of centrifugal force of imbalance trying to get out. actually called centripetal force, not centrifugal.
try spinning a bolt round on a piece of string, then try two bolts, the weight only doubles but the force increases exponentially with the revs it is spun.
What I am NOT saying is don't do this mod that Scott is offering, as I said I think it is a good idea to get rid if the dual mass, just to bear in mind that this mod has been done when thraping round the track for eight hours. Scott is very skilled in what he does and I am sure would not offer something that is going to go bang when you drive it down the street, but of course, ask him. I am sure he would give much the same information as I have given here as we all learned from the same books.
if you are going to drive the car in the manner to which it was designed then go ahead with Scotts mod,I would have every faith in it, But if you want to use this for race or track use get the crank balanced or buy a Trophy, that is what the Trophy was for and why it was more money.
Lankan":34vlsfmb said:Matt.......err am I missing something? :smatt.v10":34vlsfmb said:^^^^^^ Spoilsport ^^^^^^
1. a person who behaves in a way that spoils others' pleasure, especially by not joining in an activity.
Not at all, it was a bit of fun about this sentence: "Burnouts (or aggressively dumping the clutch) is also bad"
Bad joke I guess, no harm meant.
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