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Clio v6 Trophy #19
- Thread starter Duncan
- Start date
Good question, ask me in two years! Lol
It depends on use. I'm lead to be believe it's very pricey to keep it going if your competing in it, but for the sort of gentle use I'm looking to have, 2 or 3 times a year, it will be alright. Some bits are pricey of you break them, but it's all easy to access and work on.
The engine seems pretty bomb proof and it's a hell of a lot easier to change the cambelt (probably half the price of the road car). The gearbox will probably last years with gentle use. They are tough old boxes, the old gearset lasted 10+ years doing a few track days a year before rebuild.
Will need fluids & tyres changing regularly, just generally needs looking after really to keep it on point and ready to use whenever.
I was lucky to find one that didn't need much work, many of them for sale need immediate attention.
It depends on use. I'm lead to be believe it's very pricey to keep it going if your competing in it, but for the sort of gentle use I'm looking to have, 2 or 3 times a year, it will be alright. Some bits are pricey of you break them, but it's all easy to access and work on.
The engine seems pretty bomb proof and it's a hell of a lot easier to change the cambelt (probably half the price of the road car). The gearbox will probably last years with gentle use. They are tough old boxes, the old gearset lasted 10+ years doing a few track days a year before rebuild.
Will need fluids & tyres changing regularly, just generally needs looking after really to keep it on point and ready to use whenever.
I was lucky to find one that didn't need much work, many of them for sale need immediate attention.
I did look into it and it is possible, but not exactly straight forward. Aside from the obvious, there are all sorts of little things. It has no handbrake, key or locks for example. I decided it was too original - which is extremely rare - and didn't want to take away from what it is.
Nothing to stop it happening in the future of someone really wanted to.
Nothing to stop it happening in the future of someone really wanted to.
I really don't think that you could turn a Trophy successfully into a road car, at least, not without a huge amount of cash and talent. Race cars are designed to go as fast as possible around a smooth surface for a short period of time, after which they need to be overhauled to some extent. They are nothing like road cars or road cars modified to be track-day cars. You really wouldn't want to drive one for fun on the road with traffic, potholes and traffic lights!
The suspension is incredibly hard, and the steering very quick, and often very heavy below 10mph. The brakes don't work until they are up to temperature, something you couldn't achieve on the road. They usually can't be driven in traffic due to the engine being unable to tick over below 3000rpm or so, and the clutch being an on / off switch.
Inside, when running, they are unbelievably noisy due to there being no sound insulation, and that's with wearing a crash hat and ear plugs. They are very harsh and vibrate like crazy as there is virtually no rubber isolation between the bodyshell and the engine, box and suspension. All the race cars I've ever driven are also really hot after 5 minutes or so, again due to lack of insulation. None of that discomfort matters when you're racing, but going down the shops?
That's race cars in general. I can't imagine that the Trophy is going to be any different, except with the engine in with you it's likely to be just a tad noisier and hotter than the average saloon race car.
In terms of modifying the car to go on the road, well, that's what TWR did in the first place. It took them 2 years of development by some of the smartest engineers, using some of the most sophisticated kit available at the time, to create the road going Clio V6. And just about every mechanical component on the road car is different to that on the race car.
I love the idea of a road-going Trophy, but surely the only realistic way to do it is to make a replica using a road car as a base? A road going car could be stripped down, engine developed, sequential box fitted, suspension and brakes upgraded and cage added a lot cheaper than trying to make a real Trophy work on the road. You'd have to paint it yellow of course!
Another thought is that in converting a Trophy into a road car you would end up with.....I don't know what, but neither one thing or the other, and probably not worth much. The same is true converting a road car into a road going Trophy of course, but there at least you could start off with £5k of Cat D car rather than £25k plus of Trophy!!
Rick, who used to race the Trophy, gave a good feel for the cars in his account of them here:
LINK
So who is going to be the first to create a usable road going Trophy, real or replica?
Mark
The suspension is incredibly hard, and the steering very quick, and often very heavy below 10mph. The brakes don't work until they are up to temperature, something you couldn't achieve on the road. They usually can't be driven in traffic due to the engine being unable to tick over below 3000rpm or so, and the clutch being an on / off switch.
Inside, when running, they are unbelievably noisy due to there being no sound insulation, and that's with wearing a crash hat and ear plugs. They are very harsh and vibrate like crazy as there is virtually no rubber isolation between the bodyshell and the engine, box and suspension. All the race cars I've ever driven are also really hot after 5 minutes or so, again due to lack of insulation. None of that discomfort matters when you're racing, but going down the shops?
That's race cars in general. I can't imagine that the Trophy is going to be any different, except with the engine in with you it's likely to be just a tad noisier and hotter than the average saloon race car.
In terms of modifying the car to go on the road, well, that's what TWR did in the first place. It took them 2 years of development by some of the smartest engineers, using some of the most sophisticated kit available at the time, to create the road going Clio V6. And just about every mechanical component on the road car is different to that on the race car.
I love the idea of a road-going Trophy, but surely the only realistic way to do it is to make a replica using a road car as a base? A road going car could be stripped down, engine developed, sequential box fitted, suspension and brakes upgraded and cage added a lot cheaper than trying to make a real Trophy work on the road. You'd have to paint it yellow of course!
Another thought is that in converting a Trophy into a road car you would end up with.....I don't know what, but neither one thing or the other, and probably not worth much. The same is true converting a road car into a road going Trophy of course, but there at least you could start off with £5k of Cat D car rather than £25k plus of Trophy!!
Rick, who used to race the Trophy, gave a good feel for the cars in his account of them here:
LINK
So who is going to be the first to create a usable road going Trophy, real or replica?
Mark
MarkK":3kr844ap said:
Already done, Mark Cooper's Rally car has to be road legal, indeed he drove it to Silverstone WSbR a few years ago.
Its not as easy as you may think... even things like headlights which I thought would be easy (on my Clio cup racer) turned into a major operation. Given the rough and tumble of the race series over the years the car will have had several accidents and the unused headlamp mounting points are not exactly going to be top of the list when it comes to straightening bits out and may even be removed altogether to loose weight. The race car looms are bespoke and no one would want to cut into one to power headlights so a new loom to the front had to be made (and this was only for MSA compliant racing headlights- to fit indicators and side lights/ full beam and adjusters etc would be even more work). The headlight "blanks" are part of the front wings on the Trophy (not on my racer luckily)so would need to be cut away- no going back there.
Trophy rear callipers are different and don't have the handbrake function so more work there.......
..... to tell the truth the ride would be so appalling anyway its not worth the effort, IMO, someone prove me wrong.
Great looking car Duncan and sounds like you have to right attitude to appreciate it, its about time someone on the forum finally got hold of one.
That's why I think it would only be practical to convert a road going car into a race replica. Mark must have dug deep to convert a Trophy into a rally car......and it must be on stilts! Unless it's for tarmac use of course.
The overriding thing for me would be the loss of integrity of #19 with any conversion modifications, as it must be an incredibly rare survivor in it's substantially original state. Most of the Trophys would have been smashed, bashed and trashed a few times in their 2 or 3 year race life, and hugely modified over that period. I bet there aren't more than a handfull in anything approaching the condition / specification they were when they left the factory.
Mark
The overriding thing for me would be the loss of integrity of #19 with any conversion modifications, as it must be an incredibly rare survivor in it's substantially original state. Most of the Trophys would have been smashed, bashed and trashed a few times in their 2 or 3 year race life, and hugely modified over that period. I bet there aren't more than a handfull in anything approaching the condition / specification they were when they left the factory.
Mark
Your right about the clutch being an off switch and no doubt I will stall it a few times at Goodwood!!!
Initial idle on start up is quite high (somewhere around 2.5k from memory), but after about 3-5mins you can adjust the idle down to around 700-900rpm (again from memory!). I was really surprised at how smooth running it is onces its at that point.
The brakes are pretty mighty on the trophy, they worked pretty well from cold on initial tests. I guess with two sets of Clio v6 front brakes, on a car that weighs around 2/3rds of the road car its always going to stop swiftly.
It is extremely noisy and hot. It smells really strongly of motorsport! Even just standing near the car you can smell it.
I completely agree with you that the conversion modifications would take away from its originality. May not be an issue to some, but for me it is.
The trophy ran for 5 years, 1999-2004. There were revisions along the way such as suspension updates as well as the more obvious body changes (I am making enquiries to get hold of the documentation detailing these revisions). Most cars were facelifted in 2003 to what we would call the ph2 front end, so ph1 front ended cars are thin on the ground, even more so ones with livery still on them.
Post 2004, most of the trophy cars have been used in other disciplines, hill climbs, GT racing, endurance racing, sprints, rally cross etc, and most understandbilty heavily modified from the trophy race spec in order to remain competitive.
I’ve seen allsorts of mods from the common; plastic windows, endurance fuel tanks, aftermarket suspension, exhausts, cosmetic make overs, different wheels; to the less common; turbo’s, diesel engines, after market bodywork, lightened shells, different engines, even clam shell conversions.
The team going into liquidation meant that #19 as stayed in 2001 spec, rather than being updated to the 2002 or 2003 series. Being in one owners hands since, its quite clear when you spent time with it that he didnt make any modifcations, but just serviced it and used it.
I can think of a handful of other trophys that are still in race condition, Beltoise’s blue 2001 & black 2003 cars are in private hands in France, as is one of Policand’s cars (red/silver), Ian Khan’s ex 1999 Turquoise car is in Japan. Some of the other Sitec cars are still original too (Craig’s one in Aus for example). But the list is very short if you want a slice of time warp history.
A couple of gents do use their trophys as road cars in Japan. But I can’t imagine this is particularly pleasant for anything more than a 5 minute blast. Bill Patchell’s car is the perfect compromise for the road IMO . :approve:
Been cleaning and tinkering with the car this week, will do abit of a update when ive taken some pictures.
Initial idle on start up is quite high (somewhere around 2.5k from memory), but after about 3-5mins you can adjust the idle down to around 700-900rpm (again from memory!). I was really surprised at how smooth running it is onces its at that point.
The brakes are pretty mighty on the trophy, they worked pretty well from cold on initial tests. I guess with two sets of Clio v6 front brakes, on a car that weighs around 2/3rds of the road car its always going to stop swiftly.
It is extremely noisy and hot. It smells really strongly of motorsport! Even just standing near the car you can smell it.
I completely agree with you that the conversion modifications would take away from its originality. May not be an issue to some, but for me it is.
The trophy ran for 5 years, 1999-2004. There were revisions along the way such as suspension updates as well as the more obvious body changes (I am making enquiries to get hold of the documentation detailing these revisions). Most cars were facelifted in 2003 to what we would call the ph2 front end, so ph1 front ended cars are thin on the ground, even more so ones with livery still on them.
Post 2004, most of the trophy cars have been used in other disciplines, hill climbs, GT racing, endurance racing, sprints, rally cross etc, and most understandbilty heavily modified from the trophy race spec in order to remain competitive.
I’ve seen allsorts of mods from the common; plastic windows, endurance fuel tanks, aftermarket suspension, exhausts, cosmetic make overs, different wheels; to the less common; turbo’s, diesel engines, after market bodywork, lightened shells, different engines, even clam shell conversions.
The team going into liquidation meant that #19 as stayed in 2001 spec, rather than being updated to the 2002 or 2003 series. Being in one owners hands since, its quite clear when you spent time with it that he didnt make any modifcations, but just serviced it and used it.
I can think of a handful of other trophys that are still in race condition, Beltoise’s blue 2001 & black 2003 cars are in private hands in France, as is one of Policand’s cars (red/silver), Ian Khan’s ex 1999 Turquoise car is in Japan. Some of the other Sitec cars are still original too (Craig’s one in Aus for example). But the list is very short if you want a slice of time warp history.
A couple of gents do use their trophys as road cars in Japan. But I can’t imagine this is particularly pleasant for anything more than a 5 minute blast. Bill Patchell’s car is the perfect compromise for the road IMO . :approve:
Been cleaning and tinkering with the car this week, will do abit of a update when ive taken some pictures.
Quick update as somethings have started to happen now;
It had a Sparco seat in it as the original seat is really small. But the original seat is now back in, and also set to a location that I can actually fit in without the wheel being around my knees..
I have removed the big Monster energy sticker that was on the rear quarter:
And replaced the missing grommet where the wiper blade would sit on the road car.
The paint on the rear half of the car is really rough to touch so I have started to clay that whole car down.
Im a bit busy so progress has been slow, but as the light evenings are now here, I'm hoping to make some progress on it.
It had a Sparco seat in it as the original seat is really small. But the original seat is now back in, and also set to a location that I can actually fit in without the wheel being around my knees..
I have removed the big Monster energy sticker that was on the rear quarter:
And replaced the missing grommet where the wiper blade would sit on the road car.
The paint on the rear half of the car is really rough to touch so I have started to clay that whole car down.
Im a bit busy so progress has been slow, but as the light evenings are now here, I'm hoping to make some progress on it.
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Your not wrong James. Even the panels that look similar are different.
I guess its obvious really, the trophy car came along way before the road car and was built for completely different purpose by a different company, in a very short space of time!
Its the little subtle differences that im enjoying learning. Like the brakes, the trophy car has a different set up of monster Brembo brakes front and rear, with a brake bias adjuster which has an AP logo on it.
The side pods are extemley agricultural, held in with three bolts (that ive noticed anyway!!), the finish of the fibreglass on the internal side is incredibly rough!
I was tinkering with the car over most of the weekend, have given a few bits a general tidy up. I dont think its ever been waxed or polished before, the paint felt like wet and dry paper.
started to clean up the engine bay:
going to try and get the dark spotty patches of gunk off of the inlet plenum this week.
took the wheels off for an investigation:
Was suprised at how clean it was under there, I guess the car has probably done <2000 miles so shouldnt be that much of a shock. The wheels are littered with tar/rubber mark so have started to carefully take this off. I was going to remove all the rubber from the inside of the arch liners, but its about 3mm thick :rofl: I will just leave it on as part of its charector!!
Added the correct period CIBIE stickers to the front:
Next on the list is to replace the windscreen, its got a bit old chip in it which I dont think can be salvaged.
I guess its obvious really, the trophy car came along way before the road car and was built for completely different purpose by a different company, in a very short space of time!
Its the little subtle differences that im enjoying learning. Like the brakes, the trophy car has a different set up of monster Brembo brakes front and rear, with a brake bias adjuster which has an AP logo on it.
The side pods are extemley agricultural, held in with three bolts (that ive noticed anyway!!), the finish of the fibreglass on the internal side is incredibly rough!
I was tinkering with the car over most of the weekend, have given a few bits a general tidy up. I dont think its ever been waxed or polished before, the paint felt like wet and dry paper.
started to clean up the engine bay:
going to try and get the dark spotty patches of gunk off of the inlet plenum this week.
took the wheels off for an investigation:
Was suprised at how clean it was under there, I guess the car has probably done <2000 miles so shouldnt be that much of a shock. The wheels are littered with tar/rubber mark so have started to carefully take this off. I was going to remove all the rubber from the inside of the arch liners, but its about 3mm thick :rofl: I will just leave it on as part of its charector!!
Added the correct period CIBIE stickers to the front:
Next on the list is to replace the windscreen, its got a bit old chip in it which I dont think can be salvaged.
Last edited by a moderator:
