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Cambelt Group Buy - now closed!
- Thread starter Peter255
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What do you mean Ben?
Collect from the customers home address and then deliver back once serviced?
As you are now on the forum I have a question for you! If we got 10 people interested and they all paid the required deposit, would you buy all 10 kits in one go or would you buy them when required? The reason I ask is because we could maybe get more people willing to join the group buy if the deposit was lower. This deposit would be non-refundable but if you didnt order the kits until the person actually wanted the service doing then you wouldnt lose any money if they pulled out. When booking the service they could then pay the remaining deposit.
As I'm sure you can understand, getting a lot of people all wanting to get the service done within weeks/months of each other is a bit tricky.
I hope all that gibberish made some sense?!
Collect from the customers home address and then deliver back once serviced?
As you are now on the forum I have a question for you! If we got 10 people interested and they all paid the required deposit, would you buy all 10 kits in one go or would you buy them when required? The reason I ask is because we could maybe get more people willing to join the group buy if the deposit was lower. This deposit would be non-refundable but if you didnt order the kits until the person actually wanted the service doing then you wouldnt lose any money if they pulled out. When booking the service they could then pay the remaining deposit.
As I'm sure you can understand, getting a lot of people all wanting to get the service done within weeks/months of each other is a bit tricky.
I hope all that gibberish made some sense?!
Not to worry, I understand.
However, I was informed that there were 'upto' 15 people interested in the GB, but as with all GB's I dont really hold my breath.
Collection/delivery would be from/to owners address yes. It might cost a bit as a once off additional payment, however in terms of saving the customer time driving back and forth (4 trips would be needed in total), you would save time off work either in a days booked off or making the trip after work, along with fuel/train/bus fares. Its just an idea for those who are not keen on driving distances.
As for your other question, yes ALL parts would be purchased upfront in one go. This is the only way that I am able to offer the stupidly large savings on parts prices. If a smaller deposit was made and parts ordered one at a time, then i'm afirad you WILL be paying retail prices as nobody would offer discount for single purchases.
I am sorry if it seems strict or unreasonable, but I have had my hand bitten far too many times by offering too much in the way of goodwill in group buys. This is the only way to protect myself from loss as well as offer a substantial service cost saving. If people want to reap the benefits of bulk purchasing power, then the rules have to be adhered too......only because I have to follow the same rules with my suppliers. They certainly wont extend credit my way just on the basis of me saying I have 10 customers who want the work done.
However, I was informed that there were 'upto' 15 people interested in the GB, but as with all GB's I dont really hold my breath.
Collection/delivery would be from/to owners address yes. It might cost a bit as a once off additional payment, however in terms of saving the customer time driving back and forth (4 trips would be needed in total), you would save time off work either in a days booked off or making the trip after work, along with fuel/train/bus fares. Its just an idea for those who are not keen on driving distances.
As for your other question, yes ALL parts would be purchased upfront in one go. This is the only way that I am able to offer the stupidly large savings on parts prices. If a smaller deposit was made and parts ordered one at a time, then i'm afirad you WILL be paying retail prices as nobody would offer discount for single purchases.
I am sorry if it seems strict or unreasonable, but I have had my hand bitten far too many times by offering too much in the way of goodwill in group buys. This is the only way to protect myself from loss as well as offer a substantial service cost saving. If people want to reap the benefits of bulk purchasing power, then the rules have to be adhered too......only because I have to follow the same rules with my suppliers. They certainly wont extend credit my way just on the basis of me saying I have 10 customers who want the work done.
Oh, and as I mentioned to Peter.
In terms of booking in for the actual job, this is open to an as & when needed time frame. I realise that not all of you will want the work in remotely the same timescale, so if some need it in 2 weeks time and some in 1 years time, then no problem.
HOWEVER, this can only be because parts are bought now, at once, with the deposit and stored until use. If they are to be purchased at a later date, no doubt they will be more expensive at full retail, but suppliers will not extend generous discounts for 1 service kit bought every month.
The service kits will be boxed up and labelled with the customer name, ensuring they are not used and replaced at a later date.
In terms of booking in for the actual job, this is open to an as & when needed time frame. I realise that not all of you will want the work in remotely the same timescale, so if some need it in 2 weeks time and some in 1 years time, then no problem.
HOWEVER, this can only be because parts are bought now, at once, with the deposit and stored until use. If they are to be purchased at a later date, no doubt they will be more expensive at full retail, but suppliers will not extend generous discounts for 1 service kit bought every month.
The service kits will be boxed up and labelled with the customer name, ensuring they are not used and replaced at a later date.
BenR":2k2mkj7h said:
Thanks for the extra info Ben! :approve:
C'mon people get your names down. Seriously with the collection / delivery option Ben is bending over backwards as far as he can with this.
We have 4 already we just need 1 more to get a discount, and a further 5 for the biggest discount.
Cheers
Petergroupbuymonkey
Ben,
Thanks for clearing that up. I totally agree with you that if ordering bulk then you must receive the full parts cost upfront.
You mentioned above that 4 trips would be required..... I assume we could drop the car off early in the morning and collect the same evening?
And finally, how much per mile would you be charging for the collection/delivery option and would this be via a trailer?
Thanks for clearing that up. I totally agree with you that if ordering bulk then you must receive the full parts cost upfront.
You mentioned above that 4 trips would be required..... I assume we could drop the car off early in the morning and collect the same evening?
And finally, how much per mile would you be charging for the collection/delivery option and would this be via a trailer?
Im interested - would like to know the following.
If I turned up early enough i.e. 7am could I get the car serviced and out to go home in 1 day, as 2 days is going to be difficult for me.
Also are people going for OE parts or OEM? Will it make a difference if some go for OE and some for OEM parts?
Thanks
If I turned up early enough i.e. 7am could I get the car serviced and out to go home in 1 day, as 2 days is going to be difficult for me.
Also are people going for OE parts or OEM? Will it make a difference if some go for OE and some for OEM parts?
Thanks
Good point about OE or OEM. I'm going for OE as I can't justify spending £100's more for the same part just because Renault stick their sticker on it! Not sure how it works if say 3 of us want OE and 2 want OEM.
Ben, another thing for you to confirm if you will! Is the aux belt kit a Renault only part?
Ben, another thing for you to confirm if you will! Is the aux belt kit a Renault only part?
Guys to do all this in one day is a BIG ask.
I think its one of those things that would require a couple of people working on the car and no "snags" to complete in a day.
I understand the reasons for asking but i doubt Ben could gaurantee it. You'd be pissed off if he didn't manage to finish the work and you were stranded somewhere without transport. Also rushing is a bad idea in general. :wink:
I'm sure he'll be along in a mo tho to answer himself.
Cheers
Petergroupbuymonkey
I think its one of those things that would require a couple of people working on the car and no "snags" to complete in a day.
I understand the reasons for asking but i doubt Ben could gaurantee it. You'd be pissed off if he didn't manage to finish the work and you were stranded somewhere without transport. Also rushing is a bad idea in general. :wink:
I'm sure he'll be along in a mo tho to answer himself.
Cheers
Petergroupbuymonkey
With the engine covers off the Vee and taking a GOOD look, it looks to me as though the engine and box comes out relatively easily on the subframe assembly - assuming you have a 4 post ramp or similar. Accessibility seems quite good to all plumbing and wiring etc.
Is that the case folks ?
I guess it could be done in a longish day by someone like Ben who obviously has done it before and has all the gear. A local Renault guy I know says that some dealers use an engine jig on a wheels which the engine and subframe sit on to make the whole job easier also.
Seems to me that Renault did a good installing such a big engine in a small car - take a look at something like a Lotus Esprit to see how cramped an engine bay can be and how hard it can be to work on ...
Martin
Is that the case folks ?
I guess it could be done in a longish day by someone like Ben who obviously has done it before and has all the gear. A local Renault guy I know says that some dealers use an engine jig on a wheels which the engine and subframe sit on to make the whole job easier also.
Seems to me that Renault did a good installing such a big engine in a small car - take a look at something like a Lotus Esprit to see how cramped an engine bay can be and how hard it can be to work on ...
Martin
I'll answer each question seperately.
- The GB MUST consist of either OE or OEM parts packages, I can't mix and match the parts otherwise discounts will not be applied to the same level. The minimum that would apply would be 5 OE and 5 OEM, I cannot do 3 OE and 2 OEM etc.
- Transport for the car can be arranged and would be either on a suitable trailor or a flatbed truck. 2 trips would be needed, 1 either way too and from the workshop. Costs would be dependant on volume. IF enough people want it then I can arrange for a discounted rate of a transport company to do the collection/delivery. If it is just a few and it is me driving, then I would have to cover base costs of flatbed truck hire (approx £70 a day) plus fuel expenses. The main grip is time, as during the day I have to cover 'x' amount of overheads, and if i'm driving, i'm not working and earning, so a fee would have to be applied to cover my 'labour. From experience, transportation fees are not too bad if you catch a driver on their way past or in the area, which isnt too hard. However you have to be flexible with dates, but if the car is being collected then this shouldn't really be too much of a problem.
- As for time taken to do the job, I would feel uncomfortable to guarantee a single day turn around. There is A LOT of work in this job and I am the only person working on the car, which involves full engine removal along with offsite aircon de-gassing and re-gassing. I would not, for example, be willing to take the car in at 7am and work straight until late evening for this discounted rate, the full retail price would apply if i was being asked to bend over backwards outside of business hours.
- The aux belt KIT is not included in this job, just the belt. If required it would be an additional cost, but I not know if an OE kit is available at the moment. However, from experience, the oe aux belt kits dont seem to be cheaper than what can be had from renault.
Hope this helps
- The GB MUST consist of either OE or OEM parts packages, I can't mix and match the parts otherwise discounts will not be applied to the same level. The minimum that would apply would be 5 OE and 5 OEM, I cannot do 3 OE and 2 OEM etc.
- Transport for the car can be arranged and would be either on a suitable trailor or a flatbed truck. 2 trips would be needed, 1 either way too and from the workshop. Costs would be dependant on volume. IF enough people want it then I can arrange for a discounted rate of a transport company to do the collection/delivery. If it is just a few and it is me driving, then I would have to cover base costs of flatbed truck hire (approx £70 a day) plus fuel expenses. The main grip is time, as during the day I have to cover 'x' amount of overheads, and if i'm driving, i'm not working and earning, so a fee would have to be applied to cover my 'labour. From experience, transportation fees are not too bad if you catch a driver on their way past or in the area, which isnt too hard. However you have to be flexible with dates, but if the car is being collected then this shouldn't really be too much of a problem.
- As for time taken to do the job, I would feel uncomfortable to guarantee a single day turn around. There is A LOT of work in this job and I am the only person working on the car, which involves full engine removal along with offsite aircon de-gassing and re-gassing. I would not, for example, be willing to take the car in at 7am and work straight until late evening for this discounted rate, the full retail price would apply if i was being asked to bend over backwards outside of business hours.
- The aux belt KIT is not included in this job, just the belt. If required it would be an additional cost, but I not know if an OE kit is available at the moment. However, from experience, the oe aux belt kits dont seem to be cheaper than what can be had from renault.
Hope this helps
Thanks for the info Ben
If I'm honest, I really cant see this group buy working. The thread has been up and running for a few days now and we only have 5 people that are interested. Out of the 5 I have no idea who would want OE or OEM but I bet all 5 dont want the same!
I also dont see how the collection/delivery would work. Not everyone is going to want their service at the same time from a similar location. This isn't going to be cheap and therefore the savings from the group buy disappear quickly. Of course there is the option to drive and stay the night but again, this costs money.
I think the only way this could work (for me this is) is if I could drive my vee to Ben early in the morning and collect it that same evening. This would then just be the cost of fuel for the 2 journeys.
If I'm honest, I really cant see this group buy working. The thread has been up and running for a few days now and we only have 5 people that are interested. Out of the 5 I have no idea who would want OE or OEM but I bet all 5 dont want the same!
I also dont see how the collection/delivery would work. Not everyone is going to want their service at the same time from a similar location. This isn't going to be cheap and therefore the savings from the group buy disappear quickly. Of course there is the option to drive and stay the night but again, this costs money.
I think the only way this could work (for me this is) is if I could drive my vee to Ben early in the morning and collect it that same evening. This would then just be the cost of fuel for the 2 journeys.
IMO getting 5 people in a couple of days is VERY GOOD.
Ben will wait as long as necessary for the booking as long as we pay up front for parts.
It is NOT the end of the world if you all have to go OEM to get the full discount. Not ideal but understandable.
10 people will be a challenge, but do-able IMO.
Please remember i paid approx £1K (from memory) for this work. I drove an hour to get that done. I had to travel back on the train. I had to travel back at a later date to pickup my car. For specialist work you often have to travel. This is similar but far cheaper. You could save £250 on that figure.
Peter
Ben will wait as long as necessary for the booking as long as we pay up front for parts.
It is NOT the end of the world if you all have to go OEM to get the full discount. Not ideal but understandable.
10 people will be a challenge, but do-able IMO.
Please remember i paid approx £1K (from memory) for this work. I drove an hour to get that done. I had to travel back on the train. I had to travel back at a later date to pickup my car. For specialist work you often have to travel. This is similar but far cheaper. You could save £250 on that figure.
Peter
Ah, I didnt realise we we're on a new page lol, missed all those other questions.
The engine and subframe do both come out........however, just because they come out doesnt make it easy. Hydraulic lines, aircon lines, pas lines, coolant lines, wiring loom disconnect, air filter assemblies, fuel lines all have to be seperated from the engine, and this alone takes a fair while. Once you are prepped to remove the engine, you then have to seperate the suspension otherwise the subframe wont come off. And you cant drop the subframe and the engine at the same time, well not without a nig jig for it to sit on....but I dont have one of those, and I dont suppose you guys are willing to pay for one lol.
Sure, it can be done in a longish day, but I was asked to assist in some discount for a GB format and there is only so far I can stretch to accomodate such a service with such a large discount. So I hope you can appreciate that I am trying to provide the service that is needed, within reasonable requests to allow such a large discount to operate without other loss occuring in the business. I also dont want to be stuck for solutions should anything on the car be broken, seized, require replacement etc as I certainly wont be able to get it sorted and delivered in the same day.
The only reason I put effort into this GB was because Peter very politely asked and informed me of a large number of people requiring the work. After briefly talking with Peter I laid out some basic rules to accompany the GB and all seemed fine. However, due to past experience I never hold my breath with GB's and this is a prime example. Numbers have halved and people realise that a GB means everybody has to visit the same place for the job irrespective of where they are in the country, but I dont know what was expected originally when a cambelt GB was thought of.
When it comes to buying parts from suppliers and using leverage to gain large discounts, I certainly cannot turn around and ask for a mix and match on parts, its one or the other I'm afraid. Suppliers will point, laugh then walk me out of the establishment.....its very small numbers to them.
Again, I dont want to sound rude, but the reality of the situation is that I have been asked to oraganise a substantially lower cost for you on the basis of bulk orders. The 'how you get here' and what you do whilst the work is being done, I can do very very little about apart from try and make the inconvenience as little as possible. But with such a big job on a specialist car, its part of the ownership practice.
Now, I'm going to go and try organise one more thing, its a slim chance and there will probably be some heavy stipulations, but its worth a shot.
The engine and subframe do both come out........however, just because they come out doesnt make it easy. Hydraulic lines, aircon lines, pas lines, coolant lines, wiring loom disconnect, air filter assemblies, fuel lines all have to be seperated from the engine, and this alone takes a fair while. Once you are prepped to remove the engine, you then have to seperate the suspension otherwise the subframe wont come off. And you cant drop the subframe and the engine at the same time, well not without a nig jig for it to sit on....but I dont have one of those, and I dont suppose you guys are willing to pay for one lol.
Sure, it can be done in a longish day, but I was asked to assist in some discount for a GB format and there is only so far I can stretch to accomodate such a service with such a large discount. So I hope you can appreciate that I am trying to provide the service that is needed, within reasonable requests to allow such a large discount to operate without other loss occuring in the business. I also dont want to be stuck for solutions should anything on the car be broken, seized, require replacement etc as I certainly wont be able to get it sorted and delivered in the same day.
The only reason I put effort into this GB was because Peter very politely asked and informed me of a large number of people requiring the work. After briefly talking with Peter I laid out some basic rules to accompany the GB and all seemed fine. However, due to past experience I never hold my breath with GB's and this is a prime example. Numbers have halved and people realise that a GB means everybody has to visit the same place for the job irrespective of where they are in the country, but I dont know what was expected originally when a cambelt GB was thought of.
When it comes to buying parts from suppliers and using leverage to gain large discounts, I certainly cannot turn around and ask for a mix and match on parts, its one or the other I'm afraid. Suppliers will point, laugh then walk me out of the establishment.....its very small numbers to them.
Again, I dont want to sound rude, but the reality of the situation is that I have been asked to oraganise a substantially lower cost for you on the basis of bulk orders. The 'how you get here' and what you do whilst the work is being done, I can do very very little about apart from try and make the inconvenience as little as possible. But with such a big job on a specialist car, its part of the ownership practice.
Now, I'm going to go and try organise one more thing, its a slim chance and there will probably be some heavy stipulations, but its worth a shot.
Hey Ben,
I think you are bending over backwards to not only help and offer what seems to be a great deal, especially with a transport option, but also come onto the forum and answer searching questions in detail. This in itself demonstrates, to me and am sure others, how serious you are and how much thought you have already put in. And I think this extends to other specialists who are members on here too and do work for members.
The realities are probably that people live all over the country and that you can't guarantee the job be done in a single day, very fair comments and justifications you have made ... The summary seems to me then ...
1. The work can't really be done in a day at the discounted rate - fair comment.
2. You really should still be worthy of consideration for the work on an individual basis even if the bulk discount rates don't apply.
3. If a group discount is workable (5 or more on the same belt package OE/OEM) then the work will take more than one day and the options are ...
3.1 They live local so it's not an issue to get a lift.
3.2 They can arrange for your collection offer which would require some planning and organisation.
3.3 They can fit it in with a stop-over of some sort.
3.4 They can perform a drop-off and pick-up, assuming you are OK to hold the vehicle perhaps in the mean-time.
Martin
I think you are bending over backwards to not only help and offer what seems to be a great deal, especially with a transport option, but also come onto the forum and answer searching questions in detail. This in itself demonstrates, to me and am sure others, how serious you are and how much thought you have already put in. And I think this extends to other specialists who are members on here too and do work for members.
The realities are probably that people live all over the country and that you can't guarantee the job be done in a single day, very fair comments and justifications you have made ... The summary seems to me then ...
1. The work can't really be done in a day at the discounted rate - fair comment.
2. You really should still be worthy of consideration for the work on an individual basis even if the bulk discount rates don't apply.
3. If a group discount is workable (5 or more on the same belt package OE/OEM) then the work will take more than one day and the options are ...
3.1 They live local so it's not an issue to get a lift.
3.2 They can arrange for your collection offer which would require some planning and organisation.
3.3 They can fit it in with a stop-over of some sort.
3.4 They can perform a drop-off and pick-up, assuming you are OK to hold the vehicle perhaps in the mean-time.
Martin
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