19 GTX cooling question

[Lord Stig]

Hello all - I'm new to the site and just wanted to say hello and ask a quick question (or four), mostly related to the fact I'm not that familiar with these cars. I have already run a search for some of this information, but didn't find exactly what I was after. You have a nice site here, by the way!

On Saturday I bought a 1990 Renault 19 GTX with an incredible 48,000 miles on it. The past three owners had taken great care of the car, and it looks and drives almost like new, with no rust and a virtually complete service history. For the price I'm very pleased - I'd never considered buying a Renault before, but this is a very solidly built car, and its age for me is a plus point because of the relative simplicity of the mechanicals.

However, I've noticed that the needle in the temperature gauge sits halfway up the dial when the engine is fully warmed up. Someone mentioned on another thread that the gauge should normally sit lower than this. Is this the case, or is there some variability? A related matter is that the temperature rises rapidly in town, with the fan cutting in early. There is no evidence that the head gasket is at fault, and I suspect the problem is a sticky thermostat. I'll change that and give the cooling system a flush with rad flush at the weekend, but I was wondering if anyone else had had similar problems and, if so, what the cause was. I also noticed that the cooling fan sometimes comes on for long periods when the ignition is switched off, even when the temperature gauge doesn't show the temperature to be higher than normal. Is this fan thing normal, or is it possible there is an electrical fault?

Lastly, the gearbox is quite stiff - especially attempting to get into 2nd gear. Is this normal?

One of the first things I will probably need to do is get the cam belt replaced, as it might well be the original one. If so, although it's only done 48,000 rather than the recommended 72,000 miles, I imagine a 17 year old belt is likely to have degraded a fair bit. I gather everyone here would think that is a good (prudent!) idea, or could I save the expense? I've never heard cam belt life being measured in time rather than miles, so for all I know an old one is not a problem so long as the mileage is not close to the 72,000 mile service limit. Does anyone know if a Renault garage would recommend changing a belt just because of its age?

Sorry for the long post, and thanks for your help!

 

[gamefreaks]

The cooling system sounds fairly normal to me. The fan will cut in when in town, thats what it is there for. (stop/start traffic) There might be some air in there, which you will solve with a flush anyway. Does it overheat at all?

I would recomend that you change the gearbox oil. This is not changed by Renault when serviced so the oil is probably 17 years old! There is a drain plug on the bottom of the box (might be hidden by a splash sheild) and a filler plug on the front. Just fill it up to the plug level.

It would be prudent to do the cambelt if you are not sure when (if?) it was done. They are rubber and can perish.

 

[mojomoh]

Yep postion on temp gauge sounds about right to me - Mine stays just under the middle mark at cruise.

Fan staying on after switch off is normal - designed as part of the anti percolation system

And as gamefreaks says - change/fill the gearbox oil

 

[Lord Stig]

Thanks for your replies Gamefreaks and Mojomoh - you've made me feel a lot better about the temperature reading. I'll still give the system a good flush out and fit a new stat - it probably can't do too any harm, and a new stat should be a worthwhile precaution.

I'm particularly glad to hear that the fan starting after the ignition is of is part of the system's normal function. I wondered about that; there used to be a couple who lived a few doors down from me who were Renault 5 Turbo enthusiasts, and the fans on their cars always ran for some time after nearly every journey! I remember hearing that the 5 turbo had a relatively small radiator, and of course they generate quite a lot of heat in a small engine bay. I'm not really used to this - none of the cars I've had over the years (principally Vauxhall, Ford, Nissan, Toyota, Citroen, Volvo and Triumph) have had fans that cut in during normal driving. It would take a heavy jam or very hot weather to do that on most of them.

Gamefreaks - I agree totally about the cam belt. I strongly suspect that it hasn't been changed, and 17 year old rubber doesn't inspire confidence. Hell, I wouldn't consider driving around on 17 year old tyres! I intend to keep this car as long as possible, and it would be a shame to ruin such a low mileage engine through something as basic as that. There are two jobs I particularly hate though - changing timing belts, and replacing head gaskets. Consequently I think I might pay to have this one done by someone else this time....

Lastly, thanks very much both of you you for the heads up on the gearbox oil - it would not have occurred to me about that. Do you think that the stiff gear change could be a result of degradation of the oil then?

Thanks again for your help - much appreciated!

 

[gamefreaks]

Lastly, thanks very much both of you you for the heads up on the gearbox oil - it would not have occurred to me about that. Do you think that the stiff gear change could be a result of degradation of the oil then?

Yes, also the box might be low on oil because of any seepage from the drain plug or driveshaft.

Most likley that the car has been standing for a while. Both of my 19's (a Ph2 1.4 and a Ph1 16v) had been standing a while when I got them and both had slightly stiff boxes at first.

Change the oil and it should loosen up nicely after 500 or so miles.

There is a tutorial article here on changing oil:
http://www.retro-renault.com/forums/engine-mechanical/43-manual-gearbox-oil-change.html

 

[bidderman1969]

be intresting to see pics of the car, if you going to keep it for quite a while, i might be able to bring up the paintwork for you, and show you some good cleaning techniques

 

[The T.I.B.]

I'll stick my oar in here and say *definitely* change the timing belt ASAP - on a 1.4 R19 of mine it went after 74k (recommended 72k), that was a painful lesson to learn (however, it did get me onto 16vs!)

 

[mojomoh]

Defo change the timing belt - it's about the most expensive thing not to change

 

[Peter T]

Alltho the cooling system is Fine. give it a good flush also. Load of help can be found in the tech area, with guide's etc. i.e like the mud trap in the front wheel arch's.

 

[Lord Stig]

Most likley that the car has been standing for a while. Both of my 19's (a Ph2 1.4 and a Ph1 16v) had been standing a while when I got them and both had slightly stiff boxes at first.

Change the oil and it should loosen up nicely after 500 or so miles.

There is a tutorial article here on changing oil:
http://www.retro-renault.com/forums/engine-mechanical/43-manual-gearbox-oil-change.html

Thanks for that - the tutorial will be useful! It's a job for the weekend I think. I heard the old chap who had the car before used to do 1000 miles a year, so you're spot on gamefreaks, it has been sitting around. By the way, has anyone had any good experiences using one of the antifriction additives available for gearboxes (e.g., Slick 50 or Molyslip)? Worth the money, or better with plain gear oil?

Thanks for mentioning the tech area Peter T - things like mud traps are worth being aware of - I really do want this car to last after the care it's previously had. I'll have a look shortly. Bidderman1969, I'll put some pics up in the new member forum soon - and any advice you can give on cleaning would be much appreciated! The car has been local to the Portsmouth area for most or all of its life - the last owner must have been based in Chichester, and that was the furthest out it ever was. From what I can gather it's been used so little in the last few years that you probably would have been lucky to have seen it on the road! It's now based down in Southsea - perhaps I'll see you out and about!

 

[gamefreaks]

Thanks for that - the tutorial will be useful! It's a job for the weekend I think. I heard the old chap who had the car before used to do 1000 miles a year, so you're spot on gamefreaks, it has been sitting around. By the way, has anyone had any good experiences using one of the antifriction additives available for gearboxes (e.g., Slick 50 or Molyslip)? Worth the money, or better with plain gear oil?

No, normal oil changed on a regular basis is better.

Slick 50 and other ail additives

 

[Lord Stig]

Thanks gamefreaks, I won't bother wasting the dosh. We have the car booked in for the timing belt change next Tuesday - we were quoted £150 + VAT for the full kit at the garage around the corner, which seems pretty fair!

 

[bidderman1969]

blimey, you'll have to let us know which garage!

 

[Lord Stig]

Stansted Garage in Stansted Road (off Fawcett Road in Fratton). I used them before when I had problems freeing off the water pump on a Nova to replace the cam belt on that, and they were fine - they're a small outfit. I'll report back after the job's done in case the quote 'changes', as these things sometimes do....

 

[Neal R19]

you'll probably want them to change the water pump while they're at it, it functions as the cambelt idler on the energy engine.

 

[Gentle Ben]

Welcome to the site, car sounds relatively normal and agreed change the cambelt, the kit is cheap and takes under an hour to fit due to bags of room in the engine bay.

Pics would be good too, and it amazes me how many non-16v's there are with stupidly low mileage, Silver Streak was on 38K when purchased and Double Vision was on 49K!

 

[Lord Stig]

The room in the engine bay was one of the things I liked a lot about this car Gentle Ben - nice to work on after a Corsa SRi! I wonder why there are so many of these cars with low mileage? I hope that doesn't mean people can't bear to drive them.... Or maybe it's just that the ones that haven't been used as much are more likely to have survived.....

 

[davemitt]

just to add to the timing belt thing the recommended replacement is 72000 miles or 5 years whichever occurs first so yours should be on its third by now! all timing belts have a time limit as well as a recommended mileage at which to change them.
Well worth changing the water pump whilst doing the belt and at the same time they can change the coolant, water pump could be cause of rapid temperature rise as the paddles may have broken/corroded away meaning at lower revs the water isnt being circulated efficiently.

 

[Lord Stig]

Thanks for that Davemitt, I was searching all over for a time interval at which the belt should be changed, but couldn't find it. I managed to pick up a Haynes manual for £10 all in from Amazon, but it didn't seem to be there either. I suspect it has never been done. Yikes!

Changing the water pump also makes sense - the impeller blades probably would corrode over time. However, Renault seem to have got the pump position right on the 1721 engine, and I would have thought it should be relatively easy to replace if things don't improve once I've properly flushed the system. Actually, all seems well enough at the moment. Vauxhall routinely uses the pump as the cam belt tensioner on the Family II engines, but the thing normally seizes in place and has to be broken and taken out piece by piece. I've had this three times now on a Nova, a Cavalier and a Corsa. Looking at this Renault engine it seems the problem won't be the same, although I might have gotten that wrong.... Famous last words - glad I don't have to do the job this time!

Still enjoying the car and still amazed at the condition. I didn't get the oil in the gearbox replaced due to other things, but I have identified one or two niggly jobs to do after the important ones are out of the way. These are 1) investigate why the central locking doesn't operate on the rear doors - I'm assuming the link rods are worn or have come unfastened. Is this a common thing on other five door 19s? 2) change the low fuel warning bulb, which has blown, and 3) find a way to ease the action of the manual choke and track down the loose connection on the choke warning light switch. Normally I wouldn't bother doing jobs like these on a car of this age and value, but hey, they ruin perfection! In any case, the rear locks are bound to mean I one day end up walking away with one or both of the rear doors unlocked.....

 

[Neal R19]

LOL, just realised this is a 1.7... ignore my previous comment about the water pump being the cambelt idler!