1.4 SPI - whole galore of problems. Rough idle, crazy mpg, choking...

[Thradya]

Hi All, my first post here. But definitely not last - all due to an old POS R5 from 1993 with 1.4 SPI engine, to which I'm emotionally attached and not going to get rid of ever.

Biggest problem I have currently is the engine. Symptoms:

- idles between 800rpm and 1400rpm - quite smooth in the upper range, but leaving it without anyone administering pressure to the throttle, will eventually drop below 1000rpm shaking like crazy and trying to destroy all plastics inside and give passengers a concussion.

- running very rich - consumes 14-18 liters per 100km, moving the throttle more than 0,00001mm under about 2000rpm and in gear will make it almost stall. On higher rpms (2000-3200) it behaves decently, but no matter how much throttle is used, there are almost no gains in acceleration above the initial throttle position (about 1-2cm?) - either it accelerates or it doesn't. often smells of fuel after driving - it doesn't drip on the ground however.

- very loud over 3500rpm, with basically no power gains over 3000rpm (it may be because of almost 250k km of mileage - I don't really care for anything over 3000rpm, low rpms is what drives me crazy)

- when cold starts immediately, when hot quite a bit of cranking and a foot on the throttle is required to start

- when lifting off throttle at higher rpms on 1/2 gear, whole car tends to jump around as the rpms decrease (kinda hard to explain it with my english)

What has been done:
- new air filter
- new spark plugs (one of the old spark plugs was dirty, the rest were in very good shape - I changed them just in case)
- fuel injection was cleaned by a professional (actually I have about 3 spare ones - doesn't really matter which one is in, runs like shit anyway)

Any ideas?

Oh, budget for fixing it is around... 0p. Putting hundreds of pounds into a near-dead engine in a completely worthless car beats even my emotional connection to it.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Chet T16]

Sounds like Chris's Project Disaster

 

[Stainless]

My initial reaction is that it may not be running on all cylinders.

Have you tried a compression test?

 

[The T.I.B.]

Have you tried unplugging sensors, one by one, to see whether there's a difference? Things like Lambda sensor on the exhaust, engine temperature sensor etc.

 

[Thradya]

My initial reaction is that it may not be running on all cylinders.

Have you tried a compression test?

I don't have the compression test thingy - before going to a mechanic I'd prefer to eliminate all the other typical (and possible to check by myself) problems first.

Have you tried unplugging sensors, one by one, to see whether there's a difference? Things like Lambda sensor on the exhaust, engine temperature sensor etc.

I haven't yet - I'll disconnect the Lambda sensor tomorrow, but I have no idea where is the rest of them (and what I should be disconnecting exactly).
I can't find any "i fix it myself" book about those engines online unfortunately.

 

[hooverphonique]

check that the ignition system is in working order..

 

[bidderman1969]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Renault-5...terature_ET&hash=item43aa0c56ea#ht_500wt_1287

 

[Chris H]

if it idle and runs smoothly its neither an ignition problem or a compression problem now is it.

The main issue like every other one of these cars is its crap.

The sensors for temp are over 100 quid each, that and the ecu's end up being damaged.

first thing to do is unplug the lambda sensors rubber pressure pipe then tell us what happens.

 

[Thradya]

if it idle and runs smoothly its neither an ignition problem or a compression problem now is it.

The main issue like every other one of these cars is its crap.

The sensors for temp are over 100 quid each, that and the ecu's end up being damaged.

first thing to do is unplug the lambda sensors rubber pressure pipe then tell us what happens.

Unplugging the rubber pipe = engine dies. Unplugging and putting my finger in place of said pipe - engines goes back to around 1k rpm and works smoothly.
I've read that it's indication that the gasket between the inlet manifold and exhaust is damaged, so that will be the first thing to replace.

 

[Chris H]

the egr gasket can cause it but chances are its fine.

this is really common and why they get scrapped, its just a crap EFI system.

TBH most just drive around with the MAP unplugged.

 

[Thradya]

the egr gasket can cause it but chances are its fine.

this is really common and why they get scrapped, its just a crap EFI system.

TBH most just drive around with the MAP unplugged.

So far I removed all EGR hoses and shut all the holes - what is left is switching the EGR valve for some metal plate. Will be done when gaskets arrive.

So far - rpms are rock solid 1600, with no fluctuations like before, also car is not stalling anymore and a bit more smooth.
However most of the power above 2,5k rpm is gone, and it's still running way too rich.

Gaskets should arrive Monday - when intake is not leaking like crazy anymore, will try checking/replacing all the sensors.

BTW - I've driven a 40PS and 17sec to 60mph Deawoo Tico today and its running like devil in comparison to R5 - apparently I'm not making the symptoms up

 

[Chris H]

stick a decent engine in it

chances are the ecu is gubbed.

 

[Thradya]

Update:

It took a long time, but all gaskets in vicinity of inlet/outlet manifolds are replaced, EGR is removed and oil rebreather fixed.

Results:
- when cold RPM skyrocket to about 1600rpm (like before) but in matter of minute or two drop to about 1000rpm and stay there
- has power under 2000rpm - it's possible to launch smoothly and drive under 2000rpm in higher gears without problems
- on 5th accelerating smoothly is possible from about 1500rpm

All in all, the car feels completely different - it's still loud as hell above 3000rpm and has the power of 3 infants kicking, but on lower rpms it behaves almost like a normal vehicle.

 

[Chunk]

Certainly sounds like the old girl has some character

 

[Ridgeback]

Unfortunately,you don't hear many good things about the 1.4 efi lump.

 

[Thradya]

Oh, one more difference - when hot, starts immediately. Apparently what I thought was a quick starting before repairs, was not so quick at all.

Also, the gasket between manifolds is out of production and in very limited supply - it was shipped to me from a warehouse in France and it was one of 2 left.
Not supporting cars older than 10 years was an asshole thing to do by Renault.

 

[blaze]

Not supporting cars older than 10 years was an asshole thing to do by Renault.

No company is legally required to support anything they manufacture past 10yrs..

On a more positive note, good to hear you're making progress.