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  • Thread starter Thread starter Anonymous
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Anonymous

Ok, maybe not the way some of you thought, but this is how your gearbox looks from the inside.
I had to take it apart due to my differential problems, and a planned upgrade to a torsen LSD one which can cope with the higher poweroutput of my engine.

The box has traveled 185000 km and looks as new if I take a closer look to all the gears, bearings and syncromeshes.
No need to replace any of them, allthough I will since I've got it open anyway.

Just the differentials sliding bush shows some scratch wear which is clearly visible could be a lack of lubrication. No measurable play though.

So next step will be to measure up the diff, and try to fit in a quaife one. If there are more people interested in this conversion, please drop me a mail, so I can try to get a few more modified diff. housings casted.

P1000494.jpg

p1000493oo0.jpg

P1000490.jpg

P1000499.jpg

P1000496.jpg
 
Harry, once again a brilliantly informative post. Without people like you on here we'd all constantly be talking about coils and recaros forever [smilie=bowdown.gif] :approve:
 
Hi Harry,
I have been told that the viscose LSD from the Citroen BX 4X4 estate fits in to the PK6 gearbox without any problem.

Cold Fusion.
 
Cold fusion":1ikkn4uz said:
Hi Harry,
I have been told that the viscose LSD from the Citroen BX 4X4 estate fits in to the PK6 gearbox without any problem.

Cold Fusion.
Click to expand...

Hmmm, sounds interesting :-)

Martin
 
I will definitively have a look into that one. I'm just a bit worried about the torque limit.
I figured out how to make the differential more resistant to axial forces, now I try to get some info from Quiafe about addapting one of their diffs.
 
Did some research, and contacted some people about the diff. and I have found 2 solutions for the differential.
One of them is keeping the standard differential, and modify the housing, so that it's assembly is over the flange where the Gearring sits. This would make the springloaded locking ring obsolete. It is also the cheapest one.

The second one is a bit more complex, but at the same time gives a differential lock.
I looked at the quaife ones, which are about the same as some torsen ones, but quaife isn't supportive in providing any information, so I'll leave them aside. I emailed them a few times, but no responce. Bloody bunch of w#?nkers.
So I went for the competition, Torsen, who also makes bias based differentials. They were much nicer and gave me all the info I needed. Even though I said, I would eventually make a maximum of 2. Also they come about half the price of a quaife, and I can do the engineering myself.

The differential I'm looking at is also compatible with the ABS system, which isn't the case for oldfashion platedifferentials, or as in the earlier mentioned viscose one in the BX.
This is quite essential. Both the quaife and Torsen are because they don't work in freewheel mode.

The Clio diff will be capable to handle 350Nm with the phase1 gearbox, and 400Nm with the phase2 gearbox. (engine power)

At this moment I'm trying to design the housing around the diff. so it will fit in the standard bearing and housing.
 
Harry, this is very interesting - please keep up the high level of information and reporting and thanks for sharing this with us.
 
Some Pics would be nice too Mr Harry

Maybe a step by step guide with photos to complement, not that I want you to do all the hard work and copy (Well maybe a little)

Nice one
 
LOUD MAN":1rnj0bnv said:
Some Pics would be nice too Mr Harry

Maybe a step by step guide with photos to complement, not that I want you to do all the hard work and copy (Well maybe a little)

Nice one
Click to expand...

I will post some screenshots from the design when I finish them. Won't be a problem to copy, although I might even be cheaper just to make one extra. :winky:
 
As promised, a screenshot of the development so far.
differentialaqi2.jpg



The image shows in clear blue the conditions to be made, left and right the two bearings, and in the center the position of the gearflange.
The green lines represent the original housing. The red bit is the torsen differential housing.


The conflict area.

differentialbjs4.jpg

The gray part is the original diff. housing, the red part is where the standard torsen diff. is too big. Not a big issue for now, this can be addapted.

As you can see on the first image the torsen diff. needs to be modified on the lefthandside to addapt the homokinetic bushing from the Vee.
The Torsen has a small shaft output on this side, a bit shorter thn the one on the righthandside.
This will be the biggest challenge, to be able to use modified standard components, to keep the price down.
 
Good work Harry :-)

I have a spare torsen diff sat in my shed - currently installed in a GT4 rear diff housing :-) I really like the operation of this diff in my GT4 and am keeping an eye on this post.

So possibly turning the stock driveshaft on a lathe and machining some new splines may sort out the output shaft size issue - obviously it may not prove to be as simple as that though, particularly if reducing the shaft diameter reduces torsional strength.

I guess you are also determining if the torsen diff can be machined to reduces it's oversize in the red areas or perhaps this is where the gerabox casing work you mentioned may come in - based on the schematics though, it looks like you may be able to avoid any housing work and additional costs ...

Martin
 
Output shaft of the Vee isn't the problem, the Torsen can be adapted for this on the righthandside.
If you look closely on the photos of the diff, you see the big sleeve where the lefthandside homokinetic joint sits. This needs to be instead of a outputshaft which is the case of the torsen.
 
harry am i wrong in thinking the quaife do a Renault Master Quaife LSD which is the same gearbox as the V6 (or so my mate tells me from renault) and i seem to remember that its actually quite cheap (well as cheap as LSD's go) from quaife to buy????
 
Yes it is the same, it is even listed on the quaife site, BUT I tried to contact them, and told me they discontinued the item, and didn't plan on producing them again.

When I emailed them for extra info they never responded, probably business go so well for them they aren't interested in it.
I don't know if the Master one is as strong as we would need them in the Vee though.
The old master has about 80Hp and 170Nm. The latest ones have up to 145HP and 320Nm. This would be needed to multiplied by the lowest gearings to get the diff torque input.
Since the diff isn't produced anymore I reackon it is designed for the old master.

As you can see this is quite essential to know, and if Quaife isn't prepared to provide this info, let them go and f#ck themselves, I'll design one myself. Besides this, a torsen diff comes about half the price of a quaife one.

The diff must be able to handle at least 5000Nm for useage in the Vee.
 
Finnally got the parts finished 3 weeks ago, for the reinforced differential.

p1000812fj8.jpg


p1000811ah7.jpg


Reasembeled the gearbox and mounted it last week. Still working on some other mods of my trophy exhaust, but will probably be able to make the first testrun next week.
 
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