Suspension set up.

[Ren5Clio]

OK wow, that is interesting. I could no way run 225s without the wheel spacers. My V6 failed the first MOT i took it to with the 215s Federal RSRs without the spacers fitted due to the inside tyre wall just rubbing on the springs. The most obvious thing i can think of is that the Clio V6 front wheels don't all have the same offset but that is highly unlikely with such a low production run.

I've just thought of something else which might resolve it [smilie=yay.gif] Do you know how thick your hub flanges are at the outside diameter point ? Mine are original & about 9mm thick but having bought a spare Phase 1 V6 front hub assembly a while back that hub flange was 14mm thick ! in addition The front uprights & hubs are the same as a Renault Traffic van & i believe they also have the thicker 14mm hub flanges. Using the thicker hub flanges would of course push the inside of the wheel out 5mm further & enable the 225 tyres to be run. Perhaps next time you take a front wheel off try & measure that hub flange thickness if you can, it can also be seen by just looking at the inside with the wheel fitted on full lock. It would be interesting to know eh.

The different wheel offset (unlikely) & thicker hub flanges is Just a thought, but i can't think of anything else that would widen the track width.

If any other owners who are running 215 or 225 fronts with no wheel spacers & no tyre to spring rubbing could check their hub flange thickness at the outside diameter point that would be interesting info to gather. :approve:

 

[Duncan]

Could you have a set of Ph1 and Ph2 hubs there Jules? They are both different.

Ph2 wheels do have a different offset. At one point in your cars history it was heavily adorned with phase 2 parts, including wheels, chance they changed the hub assembly over too?

 

[Ren5Clio]

Hi there.

Well i guess it is possible but i'm pretty sure all the hub assemblies are original to the car. As i said mine are both around 9mm thick & i'm pretty sure are original to the car due to consistant corrosion (now re built) & general appearance. The used hub & upright assembly i bought (i bought it for the lower ball joint) had a 14mm thick hub flange & was fitted with the phase 1 lower ball joint so i guess it could have been used on a phase 1 but is actually a phase 2 upright & hub flange.

I would deduce that the thicker 14mm hub flanges were fitted to the Phase 2 (maybe also late phase 1s but not sure), when other later Renault vehicles (ie Renault Traffic) used the thicker flanges. can you confirm that ? it would be great to know.

You say my car was heavily adorned with phase 2 parts, do you have more info on that from your records as to what parts were fitted ?, it would be interesting to know. I've totally restored the front suspension & front mechanicals of mine & have been over the car with a fine tooth comb on a ramp & i'm pretty sure it's totally original. There are no clues in the cars maintenance history & paperwork of having phase 2 wheels fitted or any suspension changes etc. The only phase 2 parts fitted i know of were the phase 2 rear lights which i've now changed back to phase 1. Any info you have from your records would be great to know. :approve:

 

[Duncan]

will drop you a PM about your car :approve:

The hub detail im not sure on. I would of thought all production ph1s have the same hub...but its certainly possible they changed them!

 

[Brett]

Both my V6 have original uprights and flanges. I also know Bill Patchalls old v6 ran the same setup with no issue not to mention a few over on the french track days doing the same. Do you have excessive camber on the front?

 

[Ren5Clio]

No standard fixed camber & struts. Do you know how thick your hub flanges are ? They must be the 14mm ones.

 

[Brett]

No idea fella. Doubt its that though. My tyres a 10mm wider than your previous fitted ones with a little room to spare. Strange

 

[Ren5Clio]

Yes your tyres are 10mm wider which makes them 5mm closer to the springs on the inside of the wheel but that's counteracted by the possible extra 5mm thick hub flanges which will just give you a bit of clearance if your tyres have a fairly flat sidewall & a bit more if they are possibly 1 or 2mm narrower than 225mm. I have just read that Federal RSRs i was using are generally produced with quite an oversize width so it's very possible that my 215 Federals would have been running closer to my springs than other tyres. They could well have been more like 220mm wide which would have made them run about 2.5mm closer to my springs which would also help to explain things. With the difference in hub flange thickness & my silly RSRs being oversize i think that might explain it.

 

[Brett]

I’ll be honest, I would be massively surprised if Renault fitted different parts over the production run which lets face it, changes steering geometry. What number is your car. My Iceberg is fairly early I think. The Nocturne is at the later end of the spectrum.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Mine is No 486

 

[Brett]

It must have been retro fitted with different parts then fella. My turbocharged car is no296 and the Nocturne car is no1158. Both identical track widths, both sit on 225/255 tyres, both have adequate room.
When I get the cars together I will put them on a patch and string them up to measure the front ends. The rears will be different as one is fitted with ph2 rear subframe.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Ok cool, thanks for the info. If you do get chance to check the thickness of your hub flanges i would love to know to compare. If yours are 14mm thick then i'll have to get to the bottom of why mine are only 9mm thick. It is possible that Phase 2 cars have the 9mm flanges which could mean mine were switched years ago. If any Phase 2 owner members could let me know how thick there hub flanges are at the outside diameter point that would be very good to know. :race:

 

[Brett]

Obviously I can’t be 100% sure on the flange thickness’ but i do know of European ph2 vees running 225 tyres as a track setup. They run 17” wheels ph1 wheels and 888 type tyres.

 

[Brett]

When you say flange, do you mean the flange behind the disc or just the disc offset? The more I think of it, are you sure you’ve measured correctly? If your discs are sitting 5mm inbound more than any other vee, then how are they sitting in the brake callipers correctly?

 

[Ren5Clio]

Thanks again for all the info Yes there must be 2 completely different upright & hub assemblies, probably phase 1 & phase 2. It could be that i have phase 2 upright/hub assemblies fitted, Duncan is coming back to me with some info on my car which might show it had 18" phase 2 wheels fitted at one time so maybe they had to run the Phase 2 hub assemblies as well as apparently the offset of the phase 2 wheels is different to the Phase 1. If the phase 1 wheels have more offset then that explains why my wheel rims/tyres run so close to the springs. If that ends up being the case then why someone would go to all the effort & expense of changing all the hubs & uprights over just to go & run Phase 2 18" wheels beats me !!! I'll have to check the distance from the caliper mounting lug face to the face of the wheel flange (that the disc bolts onto) on my fitted assembly & the one i bought with the 14mm thick flange fitted to see the difference.

That is odd then how the Euro Phase 2 Vees can run my phase 1 wheels with 225 tyres if they have the thin phase 2 hub flanges etc. Has anyone out there heard of this difference in upright/hub assemblies & does anyone know the actual offset of Phase 1 & Phase 2 wheels ? I'll measure my front wheels & see what they are, i have a spare set as wheels which i'll measure too. Surely there's not 2 different offsets with Phase 1 wheels, that would be mad for Renault/OZ to do that !

 

[Kett]

 

[Brett]

Pretty sure front hubs are the same across the phases. Brake disks are aswell as calipers. Think the only difference is the anti roll bar pick up and location.
The rear is where the differences lay.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Yes it would make sense the front hubs are the same. Thanks Ket, good info on the wheel size chart. So the phase 1 front wheels do have more offset than phase 2 which would make phase 2 wheels run further outboard than phase 1.

 

[Brett]

Yes it would make sense the front hubs are the same. Thanks Ket, good info on the wheel size chart. So the phase 1 front wheels do have more offset than phase 2 which would make phase 2 wheels run further outboard than phase 1.

On the front yes.

 

[Ren5Clio]

Yes, 14mm difference on the front, that would hurt my tyre to spring clearance if for some reason i have front hub assemblies sitting more inboard. More to solve with this i think.