rear subframe

[ray]

well it looks like im going alone on this one again , anyway never mind i did think that it would be a verrrrrrrry limited market this guy looks like a very good contact to have on the forum for naything made in titanium and for once hes relativly close to me instead of around the m25 like every one else thanks oldskoolbaby (bret) cheers i owe you one :thumb

 

[TRW1]

Good luck with it Ray...
Do you plan to get an exact copy only lighter or are you looking to improve the design further?
As a bespoke product it would make sense to get good advice on where the current design falls short and improve it.
Maybe once there's info on price / weight saving / improvements people may get interested.
I'm sure they know with you that it will be quality.

Tim

 

[ray]

well of any one has any ideas or info on how to inprove it im open to ideas otherwise it wil be just a weight exercise about 40 percent saving on like for like i think but other things can be made out of the stuff so asthings come up to be replaced orwhen works done would make sense to change could do with a frame to work with but if not will have to use mine and it will proberbly the only one every made me thinks

 

[ray]

any one got any ideas on what should be made out of titanium drive shafts etc

 

[Brett]

There's loads that can be done in it Ray but it all depends on whether its beneficial. This stuff is extremely expensive as you probably now know and getting stuff made to a one off order makes it only worse. If you were to go all out in the search of making the clio as light as possible, I reckon this could all be a good idea. But to change the odd component here and there with it may prove pointless. Have you seen the hubs they do?? I think an alloy flywheel would be nice. Me and a mate have been thinking of approaching a company that specialise in alloy parts to make a couple using the standard clutch and starter motor.

 

[v6Max]

A Lightened fly wheel is quite an interesting proposition Brett...
Do you need to have any balancing done at the same time??? or is that not essential..
I remember many moons ago having my cup racer fly wheel lightened and balanced..

Ray could be good with the engine build.. :wink:

Tim

I've already had a lightened flywheel made and should have the drawings as well - substantial difference IIRC.

 

[v6Max]

Back on topic soon...

As we're talking things related to weight/balance etc - one area that may pay dividends to look at is dry sumping. It would save the issue of a small sump and allow the engine to be dropped lower to push the cog closer to the ground - would need to be mindful of potential driveshaft articulation issues but the contribution to improved balance and potential engine longevity may be worthwhile.

If you really want to go the whole hog with the subframe - what about CF wishbones/trailing arms? Rose jointed all round.

I'm interested but more from a restoring/changing the weight distribution in the car - the car(s) are already to front light, rather than driving around with a bag of sand behind the front bumper taking weight out the rear seems like a better solution.

 

[ray]

sounds like a shit load of money and problems to over come as soon as i have the right info on this i will be looking at changing the sub frame and looking at wishbone drive shafts hubs etc this will in my oppinion be a one off project as there is little if any intrest at all from other members and as i have found in the past there is a lot of why dont you do this and that but no one ever jumps in at the development stage and very one wants the finished items cheap so once again i am the loan ranger

 

[Brett]

No matter what happens Ray, you'll never beable to get this type of stuff cheap so nobody should expect that. If I had more of my essentials done to the car at this point, I'd be very happy to help you develope this. Cash is an issue of mine at the moment though as over the next few months im expecting to spend a fair few grand getting it ready for next spring.
If you really are going to get all what you say you are, it's quite clear your not short of a few bob. If that is the case, have you considered a titanium exhaust system? I remember meeting a chap who had one on a mini and the weight saving was huge. Just an idea Ray.

 

[ray]

titanium

 

[v6Max]

sounds like a shit load of money and problems to over come as soon as i have the right info on this i will be looking at changing the sub frame and looking at wishbone drive shafts hubs etc this will in my oppinion be a one off project as there is little if any intrest at all from other members and as i have found in the past there is a lot of why dont you do this and that but no one ever jumps in at the development stage and very one wants the finished items cheap so once again i am the loan ranger

I don't know about other people but from a personal perspective I'm interested but then as should be clear from my build thread I've already got a load of parallel developments running. I'm wary of getting involved in another simply because I'm constrained by both time and just as importantly money.

With all developments like this, I think, someone always ends up being the "loan ranger" especially in such a niche market as ours which is made even smaller by the number of people who pride themselves on "keeping it standard".

You'll never recoup the development cost and unless anyone has done development themselves they'll not have the appreciation of the time and effort that goes into the process - people will only ever be interested in the final cost to them.

The other slight challenge is that there are, and I'm sorry if I'm excluding anyone here, only around 4 or 5 of us who are seriously into the modification/improvement of our cars. Of those (which includes, obviously you) at least 2 of us are currently in the middle of very long, very costly and very demanding developments. By seriously I mean the kind of people who will potentially justify the 2.5k -> 4k that a titanium rear end with wishbones etc could easily end up costing.

I, for one, applaud/appreciate the kind of free thinking that your bring and you certainly don't seem to be shy of taking on significant projects.

 

[BenR]

My advice would be to build a tubular ally frame.

Not much weight can be cut out in terms of cost/reward ratio.

You'll probably be able to flog a fair few rear end assemblies to the rally/rallycros/tarmac racers in the UK/europe if it significantly improves the predictability of the handling. And with it being ally it will be easier/cheaper to repair come damage time.

Since our discussiong i've been looking at LSW independant setups that will fit under the rear chassis beams and provide beneficial dynamic geometry. It'll be tough, but you'll save weight from the heavy and flexy trailing arm setups. Benefits will also be on car adj camber and camber roll, track for wet/dry conditions.

You will also be able to save weight by running smaller and simpler coilover damper assemblies without having custom mcphearson strusts made, using off the shelf ohlins items for examble. And you will also probably be able to use some already available ally uprights converted from other existing competition cars.