21 Turbo Power of the super production car

[Lew21turbo]

Hey guys, just wondering if anybody knew about the amount of power that the super production 21 turbo pushed out? Saw the car had a short side exit exhaust. Must say it's really making me want to do something retro with my 21 like the old days of the touring cars. Just wanted to know if anyone has done this or has any info on the super production cars.
Thanks
Lewis

 

[Turbjj]

As far as I know around 450 horse and I think they put the engine in transversal position

 

[andybond]

I think they put the engine in transversal position

I believe it varied depending on what , er variant they had ..

 

[andybond]

https://turborenault.co.uk/t38611/

 

[andybond]

The turbo, a Garrett T4 this time, gained in volume, but especially in pressure, blowing at 2.5 bar! So it was duty 430 hp (480 hp She climbed up over the developments) distributed on all 4 wheels as it passed wheel drive. What attract Jean Ragnotti excited!

 

[andybond]

Body : 4 door, stiffened hull, partly Chassi Tubular
Weight : 1220 kilos
Engine model: 4 Cylinder 752 J7R preparation SODEMO
Energy : Gasoline
Engine arrangement: Cross before
Food : multipoint pressure / programmable injection Plan
Supercharger: Garrett T4 HF
Sural pressure. : 2.5 Bars
Intercooler: 1 Gros SECAN
Distribution : Belt & Gear in head with rocker Titanium
Number of valves: 8, available in cross flow
Bore & stroke: 88 x 82 mm, forged pistons, shirts Nikasil Steel and Titanium connecting rods, steel Vilo
Capacity: 1995 cc
Materials Block / Cylinder Head: Alloy / Alloy
Compression : ? bars
Compression ratio: ? 1
Chamber volume: ? mm3
Capacity Liquid Refroi. : ? liters
Oil Capacity: ? liters with oil cooler
SMEs torque max. : ? bars
Power : 430 hp at 8000 rev / min (More 480cv late season
Couple : 50 kgm at 5500 revs / min
Switch: 8500 trs
Gearbox : Hewland 5-speed gearing, claws
Self-locking: 3 ZF 45%
Clutch : Tris Carbon discs Borg & Beck
Front Suspension: Double wishbone
Front wheels: Rim 17 "by 9" wide,
tire 25x64x17
Braking before: 350mmx35mm diameter with four-piston master APracing specific cylinder
Rear Suspension: ?
Rear wheels: Rim 17 "by 9" wide,
tire 25x64x17
Rear brake: 350mmx32mm diameter, with master specific cylinder
Top speed: Max + 300km / h
400 M DA: ? seconds
Price : More one million Francs

 

[Turbjj]

I believe it varied depending on what , er variant they had ..

Yes, I think so. Theo's car from the french club is something between an Europacup and a superproduction, somehow a developement car, I never saw that before. from the outside it looks more like the superproduction but Fwd and traditional engine position. Engine was also something in between.

 

[DaveL485]

Europa cup was ~300bhp

SuperPro was 430 to 440bhp at 2.5bar (apparently absolute, not boost), 8000rpm on a steel crank.

 

[Lew21turbo]

I have heard that also! The grey car on YouTube with 21 on the side was I think the Europa cup car. So yeah 300bhp etc. I mean all I was going to do was open up the wastegate a tiny bit more and then get it mapped. Wanted to take out the back box exhaust too. I've just had my cambelt and water pump done along with a frost plug it never had a cambelt in its life original cambelt from when it came out in 88! But yeah I suppose to get to that 300bhp it's a bigger turbo isn't it? Forged pistons and crank? And an ecu flash bigger injectors? What performance things can you do with the Renault guys?

 

[andybond]

IF you look @la21t thread here : https://turborenault.co.uk/t81/ it will tell you what you need for 300hp

 

[Lew21turbo]

Cool thank you!

IF you look @la21t thread here : https://turborenault.co.uk/t81/ it will tell you what you need for 300hp

 

[DaveL485]

I have heard that also! The grey car on YouTube with 21 on the side was I think the Europa cup car. So yeah 300bhp etc. I mean all I was going to do was open up the wastegate a tiny bit more and then get it mapped. Wanted to take out the back box exhaust too. I've just had my cambelt and water pump done along with a frost plug it never had a cambelt in its life original cambelt from when it came out in 88! But yeah I suppose to get to that 300bhp it's a bigger turbo isn't it? Forged pistons and crank? And an ecu flash bigger injectors? What performance things can you do with the Renault guys?

If you want 300 you will need:
Cam
Head work
Uprated valve springs
Bigger injectors and a remap (Though we go standalone ECU it's far more dynamic and the map resolution and configurability make it well worth it, you'll struggle with a remapped OE ECU)
Bigger Turbo, Cosworth style turbine housing, 3" mandrel bent exhaust straight through
FMIC, pref 3"
FBI Exhaust manifold (optional)
Forged pistons
Steel liners
Steel rods
Uprated clutch
Uprated fuel pump

There's a lot of money there. You can get 240 to 250bhp and 270 torque with:

Bigger injectors and a remap (Though we go standalone ECU it's far more dynamic and the map resolution and configurability make it well worth it, you'll struggle with a remapped OE ECU)
Bigger Turbo, Cosworth style turbine housing, 3" mandrel bent exhaust straight through
FMIC, pref 3"
Uprated fuel pump

You won't get an ECU "Flash" either, it will need live mapping with a piggyback EPROM, you'd be much better using an aftermarket ECU. We all use Adaptronic (based in Australia)

 

[Lew21turbo]

Yeah, I knew it wouldn't be cheap. I do want to get more power, it has everything standard so air box standard and the exhaust has a cobrau and the back box was thinking of going straight through pipe all the way? Getting a short pod filter and pipe from the turbo is a good idea or just a waste of time and money? What injectors can you use? Anything that will go straight on? And the turbo? Do you get one off of a cossy?
Cheers for the info mate.
I'm already excited haha! I just don't want to hurt her I want to do t properly she's really rare as it is in this condition and I want just some good power and also reliability you know?

If you want 300 you will need:
Cam
Head work
Uprated valve springs
Bigger injectors and a remap (Though we go standalone ECU it's far more dynamic and the map resolution and configurability make it well worth it, you'll struggle with a remapped OE ECU)
Bigger Turbo, Cosworth style turbine housing, 3" mandrel bent exhaust straight through
FMIC, pref 3"
FBI Exhaust manifold (optional)
Forged pistons
Steel liners
Steel rods
Uprated clutch
Uprated fuel pump

There's a lot of money there. You can get 240 to 250bhp and 270 torque with:

Bigger injectors and a remap (Though we go standalone ECU it's far more dynamic and the map resolution and configurability make it well worth it, you'll struggle with a remapped OE ECU)
Bigger Turbo, Cosworth style turbine housing, 3" mandrel bent exhaust straight through
FMIC, pref 3"
Uprated fuel pump

You won't get an ECU "Flash" either, it will need live mapping with a piggyback EPROM, you'd be much better using an aftermarket ECU. We all use Adaptronic (based in Australia)

 

[DaveL485]

First off fit a bigger air filter- get a proper cone filter, a big one, not some poxy ebay jobbie thats smaller than the OE filter:



Then fit a bigger front mount intercooler, sack off the two OE ones, then think about the Turbo housing and exhaust. The standard elbow is very restrictive, you want a cosworth style turbine housing which will fit to your current turbo. You'll likely have to machine the manifold flat to fit the main T3 flange and then get a custom exhaust made...or at least a downpipe to mate to your current system.

Crank the boost up to 17psi with the above and you'll see 220-ish on a good condition engine. Tried and tested route.

 

[Lew21turbo]

Yeah that sounds perfect to me! What do I go for? All it is is I had an rx8 and different come filters did different things a k&n would make it slouch where as a piper cross was a good one across the board. Also is it a good thing to make a cold air box or not bother? Ive purchased the elbow off eBay now so that should turn up soon. When you say the the housing you mean the turbo housing I presume but with no internals? So bigger housing but still small ish turbine? Sorry turbo is all new to me I like to learn things and have a knowledge so I don't get my ass smacked when I go into somewhere. Being in New Zealand they take advantage of you having something like this because you can't get the parts but being from uk and knowing you lovely people it's a doddle!

First off fit a bigger air filter- get a proper cone filter, a big one, not some poxy ebay jobbie thats smaller than the OE filter:

View attachment 10925

Then fit a bigger front mount intercooler, sack off the two OE ones, then think about the Turbo housing and exhaust. The standard elbow is very restrictive, you want a cosworth style turbine housing which will fit to your current turbo. You'll likely have to machine the manifold flat to fit the main T3 flange and then get a custom exhaust made...or at least a downpipe to mate to your current system.

Crank the boost up to 17psi with the above and you'll see 220-ish on a good condition engine. Tried and tested route.

 

[DaveL485]

You currently have a .48 AR, 5-bolt hot-side housing (turbine housing)
Like this
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/T3-TURBIN...415535?hash=item464660202f:g:rg8AAOSwk1JWcsu8
That then has a sandwich plate on it with the wastegate.

You want something similar but with a V-Band or 3-bolt cosworth style instead of the 5-bolt...with the wastegate included in it
Like this



I use one of these with a .48AR to keep spool times low, but I have an external wastegate to help with top end flow. If I were buying one with an internal wastegate i'd get a .55 or .63AR, the bigger it is the worse the spool time but the better the top end flow. My downpipe was then fabricated to work with this housing... (Ignore the external wastegate its the only pic I have on this PC)

 

[andybond]

Are there any more modern turbo than the big ol t3 .48 that is used ? The GT lads have started using the new GT22 series..

 

[DaveL485]

Are there any more modern turbo than the big ol t3 .48 that is used ? The GT lads have started using the new GT22 series..

Yeah if you want to throw a thousand quid at a new Turbo

 

[andybond]

the GT22 series are no where near that.

I also know that the admittedly highly unsuitable TD04-HL-14/15T as used on the r26/250 is also around £650 tops. Spanking new.

Would like to see a twin scroll turbo used.

 

[DaveL485]

the GT22 series are no where near that.

Turbo no, but once you buy it, you then need to fit it...thats a manifold mod, a new downpipe fab, new water fittings and oil pipes, an oil & filter change...it all adds up.
I just fitted a GTX2860 to Johnspins 21, he got the unit from the US at a bargain, great....then the oil feed pipe I made up was £30, the water and oil return fittings another £50 from the US, then the manifold and downpipe on top of that.