More power, Motec, Money and Misery

[v6Max]

The other point that's coming out from this is that significantly bigger power = compromise.

You won't deal with the heat management issues by retaining the existing covers. You won't deal with the transmission limitations without going either highly bespoke or SADEV (sequential boxes are great but as someone who has driven both a Radical SR3 and a Palmer JP1 RS on the road, in traffic I can tell you now you don't want one if your vee is not destined for a life at the track).

Weight reduction - aiming for 1200kg would have the same result on power-to-weight as getting past 300bhp on a 255.

I fully agree with this statement - it made an enormous difference to mine when I stripped the weight out; yes it's uncomfortable, yes it's noisy, hot in summer, cold in winter, yes the windscreen fogs with even a whiff of rain in the air but as a cheap route to better everything it can't be overstated how effective weight reduction is.

 

[Kett]

Great article and "oh so true".

It was a meeting with MikeT a few years ago that enlightened me on pitfalls of tuning the Vee...
...and totally gave me the willies!

The problem with Vee is it's toyish, cartoon-like features brings out the Mechano kid in us all.

 

[WONGY]

Great post

Having recently suffered diff failure on my mk1 gearbox with just 19k miles I defo agree with this post about weakness of the box / diff especially since I'm not exactly a boy racer or anything.

After reading reviews here on mods available, I went for a Mk2 box upgrade which was the same price as getting a Mk1 box secondhand and a set of KW's. The difference is like night and day - its totally transformed the car

So would say from personal experience at least for Mk1 owners this is a worthwhile mod if a little bit more expensive than an airfilter, chip, exhaust

 

[monkey636]

I would also agree that the following is probably the cheapest and most efficient way to enhance performance:

"Weight reduction - aiming for 1200kg would have the same result on power-to-weight as getting past 300bhp on a 255."

Wheels, seats, covers, and a decent diet [smilie=hungry.gif] are a good start!

 

[Chopper]

Great post and a lot of good info. Am thinking of going down route of full Orbisoud system and then custom chip - realistically what gains do people think this will give and am assuming this is not going to cause any more damage to the gearbox etc..?
After this will look at brakes and suspension and then i think i'll stop there as won't be able to afford more serious and expensive mods - but hats off to the guys who have done this, think it is awesome that poeple are prepared to go to such lengths (and costs :wink: ) in order to make their car even more special.

 

[Ali]

lol. I like my std vee tbh!

 

[Kett]

Am thinking of going down route of full Orbisoud system and then custom chip - realistically what gains do people think this will give and am assuming this is not going to cause any more damage to the gearbox etc..?

Not surprised you want one, magnificent piece of automotive erotica...
Gains: maybe 5-10 BHP assuming there is no fueling issues, which sadly could lead to a loss.
Other gains: engine management light coming on.
Losses: hearing and more cash when you invest need in a bulk-head (assuming they're still available).

No risk to transmission, though it's fairly lightweight item.

 

[ozbird]

Wow. Thanks for the insight.

[smilie=bowdown.gif]

 

[Chopper]

Is Orbisoud best sound..? Cuase to be honest is going to mostly be about that as gains won't be too noticible. I don't want Quicksilver as reckon too boomy - but been told Orbisoud is best sound quality. With regards to fuelling issues, am hoping this is somehting Scott will be able to sort and also looking at getting a custom chip done through Scott as well to get some extra gains.

What is a bulk-head and why would i need one..? (How much too?).

 

[jassem99]

Excellent writeup and if it ends up saving at least one of us from going down the slope of bankruptcy then it's worth the time spent typing it up. Personally I will echo the thoughts of a couple of people here and say that the v6 gives me a buzz without needing extreme mods. I have the intake/exhaust/chip/coilovers, and the car is fun as it is. I can't imagine the car will be more fun with more power as it's dynamics (or lack thereof) already keep me on my toes on the track and the street. For going fast and satisfying any modification cravings, I have an EVO VI, which can be made into a monster using ridiculously inexpensive off-the-shelf parts. For some stress relief at the end of a long day, driving the v6 always wins over the VI though.

Having said all the above, in the unlikely case that my car's engine DID ever fail in some catastrophic manner that was unsalvageable, then I would look into a VQ swap from a Nissan. Nissan Altima's have 6 speed transaxles attached to VQ35DE's, and the orientation is the same as the Clio. It will involve lots of work, but in the long run if one has the uncontrollable urge to make a v6 go superfast (exclusively in a straight line of course) then the potential for making a 400hp n/a VQ engine is feasible. Sacrilegious? Yes. Potentially "cheaper" in the long run compared to making 400hp from the Renault lump? I suspect so.

 

[allye]

Just gave this thread a good read, all very interesting and it's going to be exciting to see what the outcome is when I drop my 255 engine into the front of my 309.

Firstly, the heat issue. I think I have a outright advantage to you guys being front engined with decent air flow, I'm going to have a larger, 406 V6 style, radiator made with a oil cooler. This alone will keep it cool seeing as a standard, rather thin 406 radiator, did the job fine with circa 200bhp engine currently running.

Secondly, the elephant in the room, gearbox. I will not be using the Clio box for all the above reason! I currently use a 406 ML5T gearbox, it weighs a huge amount (much more than a GTI6 gearbox for instance) its bigger than the Clio and 306 gearbox and a very strong unit. For instance, this turbo application from DP engineering run reliably over 300bhp,

http://www.dp-engineering.nl/projects/p ... turbo.html

And this chap from the 406 Forum (I'll link it any way but you can't see it unless you are a member, sorry!) is now running 500bhp+ in his coupe with just a fancy clutch. Now of course it won't last forever but the availability of them is great so chucking in another is no problem.

http://www.406coupeclub.org/PHPBB3/view ... 17&t=40767

Although currently using welded drive shafts I'm going to have some custom ones made for piece of mine. They have been taking 200ft/lb all day long, with hard launches on 7j wheels/tyres for a few years. (made by a motorsport engineer)

The weight is barely going to change going from the 406 to the Clio engine, the weight is currently hovering around the 1000kg mark, so I hope you guys are as interested as I am to see how this turns out [smilie=yay.gif]

As for my plans for the engine? The proven route route you guys have taken, a custom exhaust system including manifolds, running Emerald or DTA management that will take 6 cylinders and a drive by wire throttle, also a decent cold air feed.

Ali

 

[Spike]

The exhaust should liberate good power if you have the room, something the clio lacks.
Good head work is also the key, particularly around the valve seat area to get the max area under the valve, this will give a good torque increace if it is fueled correctly.

 

[Brett]

From memory, the 205 engine bay had hardly any room to exit the exhaust. Bloody nightmare infact.

Spike, have you flow bench tested and dyno'd any of these heads after porting? Would be interesting to see the difference to TWR sleeved heads.

 

[allye]

From memory, the 205 engine bay had hardly any room to exit the exhaust. Bloody nightmare infact.

You are quite right, 205 bay is tight. However the 309 bay is a fair bit larger in all dimensions so should be ok.

Reference the head work, I will be getting it in and running reliable before going down serious head work and cam shafts as that's a whole load of cash as we all know.