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HORSE POWER =BULLSHIT
- Thread starter ray
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T1RBO":18qyd2hn said:
however its so easy to forget that the renault / huger people were dealing with this pre vvt technology, as well as pre clio v6 experience, the rules for the trophy were set out in 1998, this is also pre vvt technology and also 12 years ago, we do move on and ideas get better. how can a cam thats designed for a ph1 with long manifolds work in a short manifold ph2 with vvt? if nothing else the ram air calculation is different and probably needs different timing due to the different mass of air. its the same motor but with a few years improvement.
I'm shocked at how shit your cold start map is Ray (assuming yours is the silver 255 with the Clio RS number plate) i heard it fire up earlier and my eyebrows raised by some distance, it really struggled when cold, coughing and spluttering its tits off! Very asthmatic if you reved it! It didn't want to rev at all if you pressed the throttle initally, on the verge of cutting out, you had to lift off and keep trying just to get it to rev!
sounds like the cam timing is way off!
has it always been that crap or is this something recent?
sounds like the cam timing is way off!
has it always been that crap or is this something recent?
Two sides to every story as always. It's true we've not heard from everyone concerned.
To be fair issues like this should first be discussed between the involved parties personally before making bold statements about them in open forums when not necessarily eqipped with all the correct facts and info. I don't believe Ray has discussed anything yet with the people involved, that would surely be the first logical step. I'd want explanations that I could then put to someone else for their view.
There are elements that cannot be tested or noticed on a static dyno that are an issue on the open road/track. G-Forces under acceleration/braking can affect fuel supply for example....I say that not with any great knowledge of how this all works but simply as a logical observation that even someone with no knowledge at all might make. I had issues on mine with this a while back and resorted to a bigger pump and then to a much more serious fuel supply setup.
Everyone here hopes Ray, and Tim for that matter get their cars to where they want them to be. I can understand discontent if you feel things are not right but to jump on a forum with the tone of language used without a full explanation yet of what issues there are (in Ray's case) will not gain support.
Respect to you both for what you are trying to achieve, we are of the same breed as far as that is concerned. I have learned over the years though that you can't take anything as gospel when talking with different tuners.
To be fair issues like this should first be discussed between the involved parties personally before making bold statements about them in open forums when not necessarily eqipped with all the correct facts and info. I don't believe Ray has discussed anything yet with the people involved, that would surely be the first logical step. I'd want explanations that I could then put to someone else for their view.
There are elements that cannot be tested or noticed on a static dyno that are an issue on the open road/track. G-Forces under acceleration/braking can affect fuel supply for example....I say that not with any great knowledge of how this all works but simply as a logical observation that even someone with no knowledge at all might make. I had issues on mine with this a while back and resorted to a bigger pump and then to a much more serious fuel supply setup.
Everyone here hopes Ray, and Tim for that matter get their cars to where they want them to be. I can understand discontent if you feel things are not right but to jump on a forum with the tone of language used without a full explanation yet of what issues there are (in Ray's case) will not gain support.
Respect to you both for what you are trying to achieve, we are of the same breed as far as that is concerned. I have learned over the years though that you can't take anything as gospel when talking with different tuners.
Bright maybe, but clearly not in the loop.
I have no idea what you are all on about.
If this is an 'Owens' thing, then I've no axe to grind. My car has been there once and most of the mapping has been done 'live' by MoTeC themselves on rented airfields. I've run the car for four years and never had an engine problem. Not sure that I could expect any more.
The Clio isn't the centre of my universe, but I liked this place as it seemed everyone got along
I have no idea what you are all on about.
If this is an 'Owens' thing, then I've no axe to grind. My car has been there once and most of the mapping has been done 'live' by MoTeC themselves on rented airfields. I've run the car for four years and never had an engine problem. Not sure that I could expect any more.
The Clio isn't the centre of my universe, but I liked this place as it seemed everyone got along
sg motorssport did the mecanics and owen the mapping now if there listening they can call me and explain should be intresting and trw1 i am not looking for any support from anyone on here your all big boys make your own minds up but i dont lie and am pretty straight talking and not in the habit of making unjustified comments oh read freds comment again how does yours run????
Fair enough Ray but it probably needs to work the other way. You take the car back, explain your concerns, allow them to check it and offer their view.
If it comes back and they say 292bhp they can explain themselves and you get another tuner to assess it and agree/refute that, then you decide on your actions. This was done originally in 2006? It's possible something has changed, if so what and why?
If they say 245bhp you ask why, what's happened? look at the causes and any blame if indeed there is any.
I think that you know they couldn't just phone up and explain a difference like that, they'd need to see/test the car and then could comment.
I just find it a bit unfair to make an assumption immediately that you must have been "had over" so to speak which is my interpretation of what you've said, either by Scott or Owens or a conspiracy of the two....
Mine doesn't run yet, but hopefully soon. I will take it to a couple of other dynos afterwards, My local one that has done the car several times and is a good reference, possibly to Ben out of interest, that would be useful for both of us.
As you say though I'm sure you'll get to the botttom of it, everyone will be interested in what's learnt.
All the best and I hope it's sooner rather than later.
p.s. prices for ceramic coating would be of interest to me.
If it comes back and they say 292bhp they can explain themselves and you get another tuner to assess it and agree/refute that, then you decide on your actions. This was done originally in 2006? It's possible something has changed, if so what and why?
If they say 245bhp you ask why, what's happened? look at the causes and any blame if indeed there is any.
I think that you know they couldn't just phone up and explain a difference like that, they'd need to see/test the car and then could comment.
I just find it a bit unfair to make an assumption immediately that you must have been "had over" so to speak which is my interpretation of what you've said, either by Scott or Owens or a conspiracy of the two....
Mine doesn't run yet, but hopefully soon. I will take it to a couple of other dynos afterwards, My local one that has done the car several times and is a good reference, possibly to Ben out of interest, that would be useful for both of us.
As you say though I'm sure you'll get to the botttom of it, everyone will be interested in what's learnt.
All the best and I hope it's sooner rather than later.
p.s. prices for ceramic coating would be of interest to me.
tim your obviousley blinded by the light eminnating fom his butt 
ready the post from start to finish and then tell me what to do 230 miles down to see scott and owen five hundred mile round trip ? nothing has changed in the time between said works done and now proberbly 5000 miles they have taken the money and had plenty of work of the back of mine and tims car FACT TIMS CAR IS FUCKED and has been inspected and striped by a very reputable company but you aready know all this any way dont you i will deal with scott and owen in due course
ready the post from start to finish and then tell me what to do 230 miles down to see scott and owen five hundred mile round trip ? nothing has changed in the time between said works done and now proberbly 5000 miles they have taken the money and had plenty of work of the back of mine and tims car FACT TIMS CAR IS FUCKED and has been inspected and striped by a very reputable company but you aready know all this any way dont you i will deal with scott and owen in due courseheres ya veiw............. it was working ok when it left . dont yank my chain tim im to long in the tooth and i know how the world works up north when i have an itch a mate of mine goes round and scratches it for me works well, by the way tim i did go back to owen twice to resolve a bogging down issue with the map all im saying is the issues are here for you all to make your mind up if you want to spend money with who ever then get on with it but if you have problems like mine and tims then iolin:
iolin:Happy joy joy! A couple of days spent without the power of t' interweb and each night I get back to see this thread has degraded further.
Two things of note from this thread that I can see ...
(1) Rolling roads and the results they give are not easily comparable. Only really good for a base line and then to measure changes against that. As my middle son would tell you from revising for his Year 6 SATs ... experiments work when you only change one variable at a time.
(2) Ray and Tim are not happy with the results they've seen with their tuning. We know that already. Thanks!
Well as the longest standing mod (other than James obviously), I'd have modded the hell out of this thread as soon as the pointless arse licking stone throwing started, so actually it went further than it would have done in the past! I've no particular opinion on the subject matter since the extent of the tuning on my Vee is a different aerial, but as soon as it gets personal, insulting or aggressive the thread is going to get locked whatever the topic.timv6":1uy0ztwz said:
Two things of note from this thread that I can see ...
(1) Rolling roads and the results they give are not easily comparable. Only really good for a base line and then to measure changes against that. As my middle son would tell you from revising for his Year 6 SATs ... experiments work when you only change one variable at a time.
(2) Ray and Tim are not happy with the results they've seen with their tuning. We know that already. Thanks!
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