Heavy steering

[ejk]

Hi,

It seems my car (T2) is steering very heavily. I asked a friend of mine who owns a 5 Turbo to drive in mine to do some comparisons. A very distinctive difference was the steering force. He said his car is steering much lighter. I must agree that mine steers heavily compared to any car I have driven.

Does anybody know what I should check to get the car to steer more lightly?

Cheers,
Erik

 

[Nate]

does he have a different ratio installed?
Check the turns to lock on both cars?

 

[SJ Morgan]

If you have the quicker ratio steering, you will be getting a pretty good upper body work out every time you drive the car. My guess is that your car has that steering gear, and the smaller "Alpine" steering wheel that came with it.

The R5 Turbos have around 10º caster, so the steering will be very heavy with the quick ratio. Get used to it.

The other cars have much slower steering, and a lighter feel. However, this gets to be a problem as the ratio is a little slow. I remember when I installed my quick ratio pinion. I was amazed at the effort, but the car was easier to drive through the canyons. Much less steering to do.

There is no fix for this. Just drive the car and let the muscles build. Since when have you had a more pleasurable work out?

I never really noticed the effort until I passed 20 years with the car, and began to use it to compare to other new cars, such as the Evo MR. Yes, driving the R5 is work, but fun work. I still love it. It is interesting, though, how hard we have to work to make these cars go quickly, compared to say, the EVO or my Noble M400. Progress, I guess.

 

[Michael]

Does anyone know what the number of turns lock to lock should be for road cars on both the standard steering rack and the quick ratio rack? Just interested to know what I've got. I think it's the normal rack (I've got the normal T2 steering wheel and it doesn't seem to be noticeably heavy). Erik, your car seems to sit quite low to the ground on your photo, so maybe your set-up isn't standard.

 

[ejk]

If you have the quicker ratio steering, you will be getting a pretty good upper body work out every time you drive the car. My guess is that your car has that steering gear, and the smaller "Alpine" steering wheel that came with it.

The R5 Turbos have around 10º caster, so the steering will be very heavy with the quick ratio. Get used to it.

The other cars have much slower steering, and a lighter feel. However, this gets to be a problem as the ratio is a little slow. I remember when I installed my quick ratio pinion. I was amazed at the effort, but the car was easier to drive through the canyons. Much less steering to do.

There is no fix for this. Just drive the car and let the muscles build. Since when have you had a more pleasurable work out?

I never really noticed the effort until I passed 20 years with the car, and began to use it to compare to other new cars, such as the Evo MR. Yes, driving the R5 is work, but fun work. I still love it. It is interesting, though, how hard we have to work to make these cars go quickly, compared to say, the EVO or my Noble M400. Progress, I guess.

I will check whether I have a quick ration steering gear. However this would surprise me because otherwise my car is completely stock.

It is not that I really mind the heavy steering, but if it can be improved I would like that. It would make the car more nimble. Also I got the remark that the steering return force was less than on his car. So his steering wheel returns to the mid position by itself more.

thanks.
Erik

 

[r5gordini]

Hi Erik,

I found that the steering on my Gordini Turbo was very heavy. Replacing the balljoints really helped, making the steering much lighter and improving the steering response.

However, in the end, I chose to fit my own power steering conversion. It's reasonably easy to do, and could theoretically be easily transferred to the Turbo 1/2. You need a PAS rack from a Renault 5 TX, and an electric pump from a Citroen Saxo or similar. Give it a power feed, energised by a relay and you're sorted!

You will need the steering shaft from the TX, as the non-assisted shaft is very different, so make sure you get this too.

I found with the Gordini Turbo, the speed I could take the corners was dictated by how much I could turn the steering wheel to offset the understeer... A T2 will (in my experience) understeer before it oversteers (at least in the dry, with the tyre combination I have)...

Would be interested to know if you're interested in doing a PAS conversion - it would be fun to see how you get on.

Andrew

 

[harry]

If you wanna use powersteering on the 5 turbo, then take the one from a 5Alpine, or 5 alpine turbo, it's the most easy conversion. One point to remember though, the powersteering isn't speed related, so can become very nervous at higher and feel very light.


Did you check your caster? if it is wrong steering also get's very heavy. And is the rack on the right hight?

 

[ejk]

If you wanna use powersteering on the 5 turbo, then take the one from a 5Alpine, or 5 alpine turbo, it's the most easy conversion. One point to remember though, the powersteering isn't speed related, so can become very nervous at higher and feel very light.


Did you check your caster? if it is wrong steering also get's very heavy. And is the rack on the right hight?

That's interesting, I looked at the suspension and as far as I could see only the "toe" of the wheels can be set. Camber and Caster seem to be fixed in the geometry of the suspension or did I miss anything? I shall at least check the toe setting of the car when I get the chance. I think I'll also try to lift the front wheels off the ground to find out whether friction is causing the heavy steering.

Thanks.
Erik

 

[ejk]

I just checked the manual, caster can be set. As far as I understand some shims are needed to adjust the setting.

E

 

[SJ Morgan]

If you wanna use powersteering on the 5 turbo, then take the one from a 5Alpine, or 5 alpine turbo, it's the most easy conversion. One point to remember though, the powersteering isn't speed related, so can become very nervous at higher and feel very light.


Did you check your caster? if it is wrong steering also get's very heavy. And is the rack on the right hight?

That's interesting, I looked at the suspension and as far as I could see only the "toe" of the wheels can be set. Camber and Caster seem to be fixed in the geometry of the suspension or did I miss anything? I shall at least check the toe setting of the car when I get the chance. I think I'll also try to lift the front wheels off the ground to find out whether friction is causing the heavy steering.

Thanks.
Erik

Caster and camber can be set, as well as the toe. There are two places to adjust camber. One is the eccentric at the inside attachment for the lower control arm, the other is the shims that attach the lower control arm to the chassis. Also, caster is adjusted where the upper arm attaches to the chassis. Check the manual.

HOWEVER, THE RENAULT DEMANDS AT LEAST 10º OF CASTER IN ORDER TO HAVE THE CORRECT CAMBER WHEN CORNERING. CHANGING THIS WILL ADD SUBSTANTIAL UNDER STEER TO THE CHASSIS, AND VERY MUCH CHANGE ITS BALANCE AND STABILITY. The best settings are the factory recommended settings, which use minimal static camber, and a lot of caster to ensure a useful contact patch for cornering.

The Renault has an excellent chassis. Don't mess with the basic setup. High effort steering with the quick ratio is normal, and you need to get used to it. To change the caster to reduce effort may make the car uncomfortable to drive quickly, and make it unpredictable. Don't second guess the engineers.

Rather than experiment with the alignment, check out the ball joints and bushings, set the ride height properly, and make sure that the car is properly aligned.

I have R5 Turbos with quick steering, and the standard slow steering. There is a huge difference in the effort between the pair of cars. I also have one stock pinion unit for the rack, should you want to go back to stock, slow steering. I would like to exchange it for your quick ratio pinion, if that is what you have.

 

[harry]

Ha, I would also change for a standard rack Erik, I've still got a new one lying around!
And as about settings, I wouldn't blindly believe Renault engineers for their basic settings!
I can know, I'm one of them!

Changing camber, caster and camber can be adjusted to your own likings, but it isn't so that you can change it big. You should always modify by 0.5 degrees. Doesn't sound much, but can make huge difference.
For instance reducing caster will indeed make the car understeer more, but on the other hand more easy to throw around tight corners while braking into corners to induce oversteer. But said that, you need access to alignment equipment, what not everybody has, so it's quite difficult to perform in your own garage. ('m lucky to have a friend who has the most modern laseralignment bench available)

 

[Paul Williams]

Hi Erik
I also have this problem, i was looking in to it last year and was tempted by the TS Power steering set up. But like some have said when the car is at speed the steering response is brilliant and very light.
The only solution i came across was the Vauxhall Corsa's electronic power-steering, the boys in Ireland use them on there MK1&2 Escorts. The setting are adjustable electronically and can be set for different speeds, so say, full assist on parking and slow and no assist at speed.
The only thing is that the drivers instrument console would have to be changed, the T1 might be OK though

 

[ejk]

I just had the wheel geometry checked. All is well within spec. Camber, caster and alignment.

Erik