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Geometry settings and camber bolts

phil b

New Member
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Just had the alignment etc done after replacing the front springs on my car. Now I am no expert on suspension and geometry but the guy who did it told me he couldnt do all the adjustments and would need camber bolts for the front and possibly the rear. I know this guy personally and well enough for him not to take the michael but I am not sure he is aware of all the adjustments possible. I am including the before and after results of the alignment. Is it set up as it should be and can the camber be adjusted. I have seen other threads mentioning B bolts but cannot see in any of the diagrams where they are. Does anyone have any pics.

I hope this makes sense as this is all no mans land to me [smilie=icon_eek.gif]

Thank you
 
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have you lowered the car? if not the settings should not significantly change, i would be looking for wear in the top mount or bottom ball joint first. if this is all good there is a little adjustment in the strut mount where it bolts to the stub. try slackening the bolts with weight on or off the hub to force the adjustment one way or another.
looking at the results the rears need tightning with some vehicle weight on them that may pull them in, as for the fronts something is defo worn somewhere along the line as it seems balanced both sides. has this been accident damage it would show on one side only 9 times out of 10.
my favorite would be bottom ball joints though. good luck!
 
IIRC you can alter rear castor but not camber ... camber will change automatically as you alter the ride hide but as Spike says, this should not change if the suspension is the same.

Martin
 
Doesn't the Phase 2 have adjustable camber front and rear? The Phase 1 doesn't have adjustable rear but I believe the Phase 2 does.
 
Rear camber is definitely adjustable. When I had my geo done, they'd expected (like most FWD cars) that the rear camber wouldn't be adjustable until I put them right. Had some fun and games adjusting with weight of the car down, and so was bit of a iterative process of lifting up, adjusting, dropping and measuring but got there in the end. Makes sense when you consider the rear suspensions' historical relationship to a Laguna's front end ;-).
 
® Andy":375emj9l said:
Rear camber is definitely adjustable. When I had my geo done, they'd expected (like most FWD cars) that the rear camber wouldn't be adjustable until I put them right. Had some fun and games adjusting with weight of the car down, and so was bit of a iterative process of lifting up, adjusting, dropping and measuring but got there in the end. Makes sense when you consider the rear suspensions' historical relationship to a Laguna's front end ;-).
while i agree that rear camber is "adjustable" its not got any adjustment features or functions, what it has got is play (or shog, as i call it) between the strut and the top of the hub assy, where the two bolts go through. as the front hub carrier is the same part no it carries that the same is possible. to adjust mime it was hit and miss with a big bar and even then the camber changes when you load the car up without tighening these bolts, proving my point.
problem is when you do this is it radically changes the toe on the front or thrust on the rear, this is the same thing just relating to different ends of the car. the front IS THE SAME as the rear hub parts wise.
after doing any of these moves you must re check the toe in/ out of the wheel corner you are working on, this is adjustable on the track rod end fitter to both front and rear of the car.
 
As Spike says, it's more like play.

I usually engineer ships, so I'm no expert with cars, but when I had my suspension apart recently it is possible to make camber adjustments on all four wheels. This is acheived by acting on the top bolts out of the two, that connect the strut to the hub. From memory, I recall the rear had more adjustment than the front, but there was definately movement in the front struts also.

If you read the workshop manual, it specifically states that the front and rear camber is adjustable by acting on the bolts I described.

It does seem a poor design, given that maintaining the camber setting is reliant purely on the friction between the strut plates and hub. I looked into K-Tecs camber correcting bolts - these might be beneficial to stop the camber from moving during the course of a few thousand miles (I have read somewhere that some owners have experienced the alignment settings wandering off alarmingly).

Mine will be returning to the same centre for another 4 wheel alignment check that was carried out less than 800miles ago soon, so will be interesting to note any change - Especially given the s**t bumpy road around my way. :evil:
 
pturner3":d6ghkxjf said:
As Spike says, it's more like play.

I usually engineer ships, so I'm no expert with cars, but when I had my suspension apart recently it is possible to make camber adjustments on all four wheels. This is acheived by acting on the top bolts out of the two, that connect the strut to the hub. From memory, I recall the rear had more adjustment than the front, but there was definately movement in the front struts also.

If you read the workshop manual, it specifically states that the front and rear camber is adjustable by acting on the bolts I described.

It does seem a poor design, given that maintaining the camber setting is reliant purely on the friction between the strut plates and hub. I looked into K-Tecs camber correcting bolts - these might be beneficial to stop the camber from moving during the course of a few thousand miles (I have read somewhere that some owners have experienced the alignment settings wandering off alarmingly).

Mine will be returning to the same centre for another 4 wheel alignment check that was carried out less than 800miles ago soon, so will be interesting to note any change - Especially given the s**t bumpy road around my way. :evil:
i agree with the idea of the bolts but what pi**ed me off in my case was trying to rectify an oil leak at the drive boot meant that these were on and off about six times, you would never get them back in the same place twice.
 
It may be possible to make a go/no-go type template, or take careful measurements and angles of the relative positions of the strut and hub. At least to serve as a guide once they are set up. I'd have to look at the arrangement again to see how easy and accurate that would be. Either way, I'd still want a proper alignment check done!

Thinking about it, does the actual camber angle not vary slightly from new tyres to worn tyres? My tyres always seem to scrub the inner edges out first, which I put down to the normal set up of the car. Would this lead to an increasing negative camber angle as the tyres wear like this? Hmmmm.....

It's a right pain with these adjustments having to be made everytime, but I just put down to one of those idiosyncrasies of the car...
 
Hi all,

Thank you for your help. The car is at standard height and has not had any accidents in my ownership and none by previous owners as far as I can see.(had a good look when I bought the car)

I have hit some pretty nasty pot holes over the years which probably have knocked things about a little. I think I will go back and try and get the camber sorted using the existing bolt adjustements for now and see how close I get to the recomended settings. I will also look at the ball joints to see if they are worn. I have done 23000 miles in the car. Are they likely to be worn after that mileage.

Phil
 
Don't forget to check the bushes, They can deteriorate over time and go soft, Not that they were top quality to begin with. ( top mounts had horrendous movement under load )
 
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