Gearbox Oil Change and Service Questions

[Banjo232232]

I've done a quick search, a lot of talk about changing gearbox oil but not any info on how often it should really be done i.e. mileage or age time. I'm looking into getting a full service done and I asked renault about what was included in the major service and the woman said gearbox oil was not on any service schedule.

Also how much have you spent on a major service;
Oil + filter
Fuel filter
Fluids; cooland, brake
Spark plugs
Pollen filter
(anything i've missed?)

Any idea of the rough labour time someone should charge for the above.

Sorry about the questions, not very mechanically minded

Thank you

James

 

[Spike]

CAM BELT! sorry for shouting, just needed the impact, like the bill!

 

[Jamesv6]

Servicing Maintenance Manual mentions checking gearbox levels as an operation to be carried out.

 

[Banjo232232]

Don't worry the cambelt has been replaced along with an oil change. Just time for a fluids change as the last time this was done was 3.5 years ago and I need to get my brakes serviced anyway might as well do it all at the same time.

 

[Ali]

Just make sure you put the right oil in! I gave the garage the oil i wanted put in and they put something else in making it incredible difficult to change gear when cold! Doh!

 

[Steve-V6-D61]

Gearbox oil must be suitable for gearboxes with bronze bulk rings as normal oil has cleaning agents added that eat into to bronze, Redline MTL is OK for these gearboxes.

Dont forget to buy the special dip stick from Renault before you drain your gearbox as you will need to dip it to check the level, DO NOT FILL IT TO THE LEVEL OF THE FILLER PLUG thats about a 1.5 litres too much. Make sure the cars jacked up level as well.

You can use normal oil and it will work but will not help the life of the gearbox.

I also used Comma Xstream G30 Antifreeze & Coolant Concentrate as a replacement for the Renault item and its approved for alloy engines

Brake fluid was DOT 5 Halfords.




Steve

 

[Spike]

Steve, you mention redline mtl oil for the gearbox, would it be a good idea to list the known oils that are suitable, and also the ones that are prefered. i said "known" as the list could be endless.
i need to change the box oil on mine as i noticed possible bronze contamination when i had the drive boot changed, this might just be regular baulk ring wear though. when replaced i just put an oil in that i had knocking around.

 

[Steve-V6-D61]

more info

Depending on the age, make and model, non-EP gear oils may be required for use in gearboxes and final drives. Certain designs contained a lot of phosphor bronze (copper containing) components that are sensitive to the sulphur-based extreme pressure (EP) additive. The sulphur attacks the copper and destroys the integrity of the meshing gear surfaces.

Gear Oil

Gear oil viscosity is measured at 150 F vs. 210 F for motor oil. Therefore, 40 W motor oil is the same as
95 W gear oil.

Gear oil is acidic, motor oil is alkiline. Gear oil needs very high wear protoection - Extreme Pressure
(marked as EP). Therefore, it has a very high sulfer and phospor content. Sulfur and Phosphate reactions
start at a lower temperature, and Gear Oil has much more additive than motor oil. This additive is
corrosive to copper bearings and bronze synchro rings.

Positraction additives are Friction modifiers - make the base oil much more slippery. They coat the metal
surfaces, and prevent the stick/slip mode of operation, preventing shudder, and causes smoother take-up.
Friction Modifiers may detract from EP characteristics.

Friction modifiers cause smooth take-up of Limited slip units. For track racing, FM is probably
undesireable, and immediate take-up is more important. For Street, FM is usually reccomended for more
comfortable operation.

Gear oils decompose at lower temperature, usually 250 F.

Gear Lubrication Ratings

GL-1 No Additives
GL-2
GL-3
GL-4 Suitable for light duty hypoid sets
GL-5 Has lots of sulfer - Heavy duty hypoids
GL-6

Hypoid type gear sets have a sliding rather than rolling action, and therefore require much greater wear
protection.

GL-5 Should be used in rear differentials.

GL-6 is a heavier weight GL-5. Used for heavy trucks and Tow Vehicles.

Red line MTL is a synthetic oil designed for use in synchromesh gearboxes and transaxles. It provides excellent protection to gears and synchromesh and has a perfect coefficient of friction to allow easy gear changes even when cold.

Features of Red line MTL
Popular for BMW, Honda and Acura, Ford Focus, late-model Mini Cooper, Dodge & Jeep NV1500, NV3500 and NV5600 truck transmissions
Popular replacement for and improvement over GM Synchromesh® (#12345349) and Auto-Trak II® (#1237850, also Ford Motorcraft® XT-MT-QS
Safe for brass synchros, as it lacks the reactive sulfurs found in most GL-5 oils that cause damage
Offers quicker shifts, perfect synchronizer coefficient of friction
Eliminates notchy shifting, even when cold
High performance gear protection and longer synchro life
Satisifies the gear oil viscosity requirements of 70W, 75W, 80W, and motor oil viscosities of SAE 30, 10W30, and 5W30
Recommended for GL-1, GL-3, and GL-4 applications, as well as where most special synchromesh fluids are specified


•Eliminates notchy gear changes
•Enables high speed down shifting
•Reduces gear whine and rattle at high temperatures
•Non corrosive
•Smooth gear changes even when cold
Supplied in 1 quart bottles which equates to 0.94 litres.

 

[Jamesv6]

more stuff on oil LINK

 

[Spike]

steve, did you swalow the sales leaflet?
firstly, the decomposition of copper base metals bit, this refers to very much older vehicles than ours, more like pre 50's models that anything modern, the baulk rings in these reno boxes are not affected by this problem,this is mainly found in GL5.
secondly, this is a hypoid action box, OK, a light action hypoid so would require GL3, these contain very little of the sulphur based additives as they were designed for more modern boxes.
whilst a very informative write up steve, i thought could be a little intimidating for the less knowledgeable amongst us, and i would like to underline the fact that modern gearbox (nearly said gear) oils take this ino consideration, so use a gearbox oil, not, a gear oil as these are meant for differentials and heavy duty hypoids and do contain the sulphurs.
thirdly, the GL index does not cover all eventuallities, there are certain manufacturers that specify SPECIFIC products for their gearboxes as they have specific needs. does the pk6 o12 have specific needs, and were there any bulletins issued with regards gearbox oil.
for the less mechanically minded my suggested list was for known brands not specs, removing the need to read the tub.
this helps me a lot as i cannot even be bothered to read the tub.
personal comments would be a good measure, like "after using brand xxx mine went bang" this would help point us in the right direction.

 

[thunderstarter]

Steve, Ive just been in contact with Millers Oils, who are based in Brighouse, West Yorkhshire just down the road from me. I explained to their tech dept about the Brass components in the Clio Box, this was their response...

Please note none of our gear oil products are aggressive to yellow metals

Would you agree with this?
They have specified this as the most appropriate transmission gear oil for the Clio V6:
LINK

This is what they spec for all other fluids:

Renault, Clio II X65/L65, Clio II Sport V6, X65, 2003-2005
Manufacturer: Régie Nationales des Usines Renault, Billancourt - Seine, France
Drive type: r.w.d.
Cylinder capacity: 2946 cc
Power output: 255 HP / 187 kW at 7150 RPM

Engine L7X
Petrol, 4-stroke, 6 cilinder, V, 4 valves/cyl, liquid cooled
Cylinder capacity: 2946 cc
Power output: 255 HP/187 kW at 7150 RPM
Capacity 5.5 liter
Filter capacity: 0.3 liter

Use: Normal
Change 20000 km/24 months

OEM recommendation
year-round ACEA A3-02 SAE 0W-40
year-round ACEA A3-02 SAE 5W-40

Company products
year-round XFS 5w40
year-round Trident 5w40


Transaxle, manual PK6
Manual
Capacity 2.4 liter
Gears forward: 6
Gears reverse: 1

Use: Normal
Check 20000 km/24 months

OEM recommendation
year-round (Tranself TRZ) SAE 75W-80

Company products
year-round EP 75w80 GL5


Hydraulic brake system
Capacity 1 liter

Use: Normal
Check 20000 km/24 months
Change 120000 km/48 months

OEM recommendation
year-round Brake fluid, DOT 4 -
year-round Brake fluid, DOT 3 -

Company products
No product found


Power steering
Capacity 1.1 liter

Use: Normal
Check 20000 km/24 months

OEM recommendation
year-round Dexron IID -

Company products
year-round Millermatic ATF UN


Cooling system
Capacity 15 liter

Use: Normal
Check 20000 km/24 months
Change 120000 km/48 months

OEM recommendation
year-round Coolant, Renault Glaceol RX type D -

Company products
No product found

 

[Brett]

Yeah thats great but the above got the gearbox type wrong for a start. Its definatly not a Transaxle although I wish it was lol

 

[Spike]

This is typical of an oil manufacturers blanket quotes!
great, but are these folk picking the pieces up when it does go bang, why quote a GL5? this is more like a diff oil than a gearbox oil.
and well done brett for pointing that out, so not bad eh! if they cannot cet that right what chance the oil!

muppets!

 

[thunderstarter]

I'm trying to defend Millers oils, but the spec of the car has come direct from Renault, so who's wrong here?

 

[thunderstarter]

let me rephrase that... I'm NOT trying to defend Millers Oils!

 

[WONGY]

Folks from personal experience the ELF renault stuff is the one to buy

My mk1 box got a whining diff at just 18k and that wasnt me doing standing starts or anything

Am certain not using the ELF stuff in the box was a factor

After having shell, redline and silkolene put in the box cos of notchy gearchanges, finally getting the approved renault stuff was a defo improvement to the gear change

Not sure why the ELF makes the gearchange better other than it smells like the worst rotten eggs ever

As for parts numbers - yes one was replaced by the other. Believe the old oil with Renault from ELF as part no was 77 11 143 534 then changed to a new one which is 77 11 219 74 - i know this cos i just looked at the two bottles i have with some oil left - plus you can only buy in 5 litres i think these days

Think Scott at SG or Alex carlton exmouth should stock it

On the positive side it did push me to upgrade to a Mk2 gearbox which has much better ratios in 1,2,3rd gears - 4,5,6 are different. Was also told the diff casing is stronger as well for the Mk2 box

Hope this helps!

 

[Steve-V6-D61]

Redline MTL is what i used and its seems OK to me but its a big can of worms this gearbox of debate, go on to the Volvo forum or the Luguna forums and there loads of posts, i think the answer if you not sure put in ELF as recommended by Renault, me i was not paying renaults price so that why i went for Redline

just a couple of post from the renault forum

Redline MTL is safe for brass bulked ringed gearboxs, which the PK gearboxes are its about £17 per us quart, which is .95 of a litre, opie oils is were i get mine from.

Still pricey, but esay to get.

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MIKE436923rd March 2011, 09:27 AM
They are generally maintenance free..

However the gearbox fitted to yours (6-speed PK6 box) uses a specialised oil.. It is vey expensive and difficult to get hold of outwith the dealer network..
It is called TRP and comes in 1 litre bottles..

If you are going to replace it then be aware that overfilling this box will quickly lead to failure..
The drain plug is in the bottom of the casing. The fill hole is on the front of the casing, a butterfly type plug..
The box hold 2.4 litres from empty.. You must NOT fill the box until the oil spills out of the fill hole as you would expect.. So measure 2.4l and fill..
There is a special gearbox dipstick that we use in the dealership to confirm the level... But it is renault only..